Ben, On 11/5/08, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Glad the convergence08 wiki issues were resolved ... > > About futurists: I don't think that term should be reserved for those who > are actively working as scientists or engineers ... > > About Aubrey: I don't buy the argument that theoretical biology isn't real > biology. I think we need more theoretical biology. In physics no one says > a theoretician isn't a real physicist!!!
As I explained, I am on fence here. In physics, a theoretical physicist clearly identifies the unproven assumptions, and experimental physicists get right onto testing those assumptions. Further, they all work in the same Physics Building on the University, talk things over with each over in the coffee room, etc. It is EXTREMELY rare for someone like Einstein to figure something important out in a vacuum (no pun intended). More to your interests. After I wrote my first NN program, I took a 2-year job at the University of Washington Department of Neurological Surgery, and not only learned just about everything then known about neurons, but I also learned how shaky that knowledge was, etc. I got more from the coffee room than from everywhere else combined. Fast forward 30 years. The head of the department is now the head of research for the entire U of W medical center. He recently commented that the BIGGEST loss to neural research was the loss of the coffee room when molecular biology drove a wedge through the field. In summary, I completely agree that we need theoretical people. However, once a theory is on the table you simply can't stop there. If you know something/anything new about aging, there is probably someone out there whose life you could easily save (at least for a few years) with that knowledge. If no such person exists, then your "knowledge" is probably situated within some useless paradigm. In short, at least with longevity, there is simply no excuse for not trying things out, as there is certainly no shortage of experimental subjects. Note that I have posted that I often work with elderly people to cure whatever is presently killing them, but I have not (yet) worked with mice. The explanation is simple: Human subjects find me - I don't even have to look for them. They pay for their own lab work, etc. They are self-maintaining, etc. I have contacted Aubrey's Methuselah foundation for help in locating a source of mice for others with my interest to practice on before moving onto people, but so far, without success. They seem to be interested in my approaches, but the labs who supply the mice are concerned about possible press blowback when I turn mice over to the grandchildren of elderly people to practice on before working on grandma, who of course has absolutely NO other access to competent help, as the medical establishment has already written her off and only wants to prescribe pain meds until she dies. Now, as of yesterday, they can simply euthanize grandma, so what's the problem? Note that I had no trouble finding a veterinarian who would do the autopsies of countless mice FOR FREE just to get this field moving. I even talked to one lady whose time job it is to euthanize mice at the University of Washington. Certainly, if the mice were to become someone's pet as their owner tried various things, it would be a MUCH better future for the mouse than a needle prick followed by nothing. I could just as well been talking to a stone wall. Hence, there is now an ever growing population of people who are experimenting directly on grandma, having been given no other rational choice by a system-gone-berserk. In this crazy light, I cut Aubrey no slack at all, but still remain open minded about whether he is a real futurist, or a pretent futurist. Perhaps only time will tell. Steve Richfield ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
