# RE: [agi] Re: Compressed Cross-Indexed Concepts

```Mike,

```
```
To put it into your own words here, mathematics is a delineation out of the
infinitely diversifiable, the same "zone" where design comes from. And
design needs a medium, the medium can be the symbolic expressions and
language of mathematics. And so conveniently here the mathematics is
expressible in a software language, computer system and database.

Don't forget, the designer in all of us needs a medium to express and
communicate, if not it remains in a void. A designer emits design, and in
this case, AGI, the design is the/a designer. Sounds kind of hokey but true.
there are other narrow cases where this is true, but not in the grand way
AGI is. IOW, in a way, AGI will design itself, it's coming out of the
infinitely diversifiable and maintaining a communication with it as a
delineation within itself. It's self-organizingly injecting itself into this
chaotic world via our intended or unintended manifestations.

John

From: Mike Tintner [mailto:tint...@blueyonder.co.uk]

JAR: Define "infinitely diversifiable".

I just did more or less.  A form/shape can be said to be "delineated"
(although I'm open to alternative terms, because "delineation" needn't
consist of using lines as such - as in my examples, it could involve using
amorphous masses, or "pseudo-lines").

Diversification - in this case creating new kinds of font - therefore
involves using 1) new principles of delineation  -  the kinds of
lines/visual elements used are radically changed, and 2) new principles of
**arrangement** of the visual elements  - for example, various fonts there
can be said to conform to an "A" arrangement, but one or more shifted that
to a new "triangle" arrangement without any cross-bar in the middle; using
double/triple lines could be classified as either 1) or 2) I guess. An
innovative (although pos. PITA) arrangement would be to have elements that
move/are mobile. And delineation involves 3) introducing new kinds of
elements *in addition* to those already there or deleting existing kinds of
elements.

"Diversifiable" is merely recognizing the realities of the fields of art and
design, which is that they will - and a "creative algorithm" therefore would
have to be able to -  infinitely/endlessly transform the constitution and
principles of delineation and depiction of any and all forms.

I think part of the problem here is that you guys think like mathematicians
and not designers - you see the world in terms of more or less rigidly
structured abstract forms (& that allows for all geometric morphisms) - but
a designer has to think consciously or unconsciously much more fluidly in
terms of  kaleidomorphic, freely structured and fluidly morphable abstract
forms. He sees abstract forms as infinitely diversifiable. You don't.

To do AGI, I'm suggesting - in fact, I'm absolutely sure - you will have to
start thinking in addition like designers. If you have contempt for design,
as most people here seem to do, it is actually you who deserve contempt.
"God" was a designer long before "He" took up maths.

From: J. Andrew Rogers <mailto:jar.mail...@gmail.com>

Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:23 PM

To: AGI <mailto:a...@listbox.com>

Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Compressed Cross-Indexed Concepts

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Mike Tintner <tint...@blueyonder.co.uk>
wrote:

You do understand BTW that your "creative algorithm" must be able to produce
not just a limited collection of  shapes [either squares or A's]  but an
****infinitely diversifiable** collection.

Define "infinitely diversifiable".

There are whole fields of computer science dedicated to small applications
that routinely generate effectively unbounded diversity in the strongest
possible sense.

--

J. Andrew Rogers

AGI |  <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives
by sender.|  <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Modify Your Subscription

<http://www.listbox.com/> Description: Image removed by sender.

AGI |  <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives
by sender.|
<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>

<http://www.listbox.com/> Description: Image removed by sender.

-------------------------------------------
AGI
Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now