Comments inline.

On 3/2/2018 2:37 PM, Kenyon Prater wrote:
Gray Land and Fountain Draft 1 {

Amend rule 1995/0 "Land Types" (Power=2.0):
     Replace "whose values are "Black", "White", and "Aether"", with the
     text "whose values are "Black", "White", "Gray", and "Aether""

Create a new rule "Facility Categories", (Power=2.0):
     A Category is an entity specified as such by the rule that creates it.

I don't understand what this is supposed to mean. Categories are entities? Why?

     A facility's Categories may be defined in the rule that creates it, and
     may be any set of Categories defined in the rules. If no Categories are
     defined in the facility's creating rules, the facility's Categories is
     the null set.

     A facility belongs to [Category] if that Category is an element in its
     Categories. A [Category] facility refers to a facility that belong to
     [Category]. A Pure-[Category] facility refers to a facility that belong
     to [Category] and no others.

I'd recommend replacing "[Category]" with a single-letter variable like x or n or maybe even c. Not that this is wrong, it's just more Agoran to have it the other way.

Amend "Asset Generation with Facilities" (Power=2.0) to read the following:

Rename this rule to something like "Types of Facilities" or smth.

     Asset Generator is a Category of facilities. When an Asset Generator
     facility creates assets, the assets are added to the facility's
     possession. The rule that creates an Asset Generator facility CAN
     specify a carrying capacity for assets. If, at any time, the amount of
     an asset in the possession of an Asset Generator facility exceeds that
     asset's carrying capacity, an amount of that asset is destroyed until
     the amount of that asset in the possession of the facility is equal to
     its carrying capacity.

     Production is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Production
     facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
     Agoran Week, Agora creates a number of assets in a Production facility
     specified by the rule which creates the facility.

     Processing is a Category of facilities. A facility that is a Processing
     facility is also an Asset Generator facility. At the end of every
     Agoran Week, Agora destroys any refinable assets in the possession of
     each processing facility that that facility can change into refined
     assets and replaces them with a corresponding number of refined assets
     to be specified by the rule that creates the facility.

     A player can take a number of assets from an Asset Generator facility's
     inventory by announcement if eir location is the same as the facility's
     and the following criteria are met:

     1. if the facility is built on Public Land, none.

     2. if the facility is built on Communal Land, e must be a party to
        that contract and the text of the contract must permit em to do

     3. if the facility is built on Private Land, e must own the
        facility, or the owner must have consented.

This is a problem with the original PAoaM, not your proposal, but it sure looks like players can't transfer assets to facilities. Gaelan, better add that to the PAoaM patch proposal.

Amend "Facility Ranks" (Power=2.0) to read the following:
     Rank is a facility switch tracked by the Cartographor defaulting to 1.
     Its possible values include all integers between 1 and 5, inclusive.

     If a facility specifies upgrade costs, a player CAN increase the rank
     of a facility e owns that is at eir location by exactly 1 by
     announcement by paying any upgrade costs of the facility for that
     specific rank. If no upgrade costs are specified for a facility, a
     player CANNOT increase the rank of that facility unless specified in
     other rules.

Create a new rule "Facility Colors" (Power=2.0):
     A facility's Allowed Land Types is a property defined as such, having

Make Allowed Land Types a switch with the possible values of a list of allowed Land Types. Also, I think to keep consistent with the title, you should have it be maybe named the color switch.

     allowable values of any set of allowed values of the Land Type switch,
     with a default value of {"Black", "White"}. A facility may not have a
     Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of their Allowed
     Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility to be
     created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of
     its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions fails. If a
     facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to a color that is
     not in that facility's Allowed Land Types, that facility, and anything
     contained within, is destroyed.

"and anything contained within" is gratuitous. Not saying you have to remove it, but it's sort of implied, for future notice.

Also, I still think another paragraph should be added that lists the X facility shorthand. Then you can define something as a "gray facility" to make it a bit shorter.

Create a new rule "Gray Land" (Power=2.0):
     Gray Land is Land whose Land Type switch is set to "Gray". Gray Land

This first sentence is gratuitous as well. In the original land types rule, X Land is specified as Land with a type of X.

     is preserved and owned by Agora. If Land becomes Gray Land, it, along
     with any facilities with it as their Parent Land Unit, are transfered
     to Agora, and the Land's preservation switch is set to true.

You mention being preserved twice here. Don't be redundant and repeat yourself.

Create a new rule "Gray Actions" (Power=1.0):
     Players CAN destroy:

     1. 1 apple to move from one Gray Land Unit to an adjacent Unit of any
        Land Type that is not Aether;

     2. 1 apple to move from one Land Unit of any Land Type to an adjacent
        Gray Land Unit.

     Players CAN, while performing the above actions, substitute 3
     apples for 1 corn. [Maybe need a good way to say that these actions can
     be combined with actions described in Actions in Arcadia for the
     purposes of spending corn.]

Here's how I'd implement this rule. Make the first item in the list in that rule say this:

      1. 1 apple to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if their
         Land Types are the same or one of them is gray, and the
         destination is not Aether;

Create a new rule "Agoran Monuments" (Power=1.0):
     Agoran Monument is a Category of facilities. For each type of Agoran
     Monument facility, there may only be one instance of that facility in
     existence at any one time. If an action would cause an Agoran Monument
     facility to exist while another Agoran Monument facility of the same
     type is already in existence, that action fails.

Create a new rule "The Fountain" (Power=1.0):
     A fountain is a facility with Allowed Land Types of {"Gray"}, and
     Categories {Agoran Monument}. A fountain has no upkeep cost.

Create a new rule "Wishing Fountain", (Power=1.0):
     If a player's location is the same as a fountain, e CAN and MAY destroy
     a coin to Throw A Coin into the fountain. This does nothing, unless
     specified in another Rule. A player MAY announce what e wishes for when
     e Throws A Coin.

Set (0, 0)'s Land Type to "Gray".
Create a fountain at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.

Reasons for rules:
  - "Land Types" needs to be amended to add Gray as a Land Type.
  - "Facility Categories" is an implementation of Aris' suggestion of
         defining facility categories.
  - "Asset Generation with Facilities" is amended to turn production and
         processing into Categories. The actual rules for specific
         facilities can be unmodified, I think.
  - "Facility Ranks" is modified so it's clear what happens if a facility
         doesn't define ranks, like the fountain right now.
  - "Facility Colors" is Trigon's suggestion of "X facilities"
  - "Gray Land" defines how Gray Land works, including Trigon's suggestion
         of specifying that Gray Land is always preserved.
  - "Gray Actions" allows walking on Gray Land.
  - "Agoran Monuments" specifies a Category used for unique structures that
         can only exist one place in Arcadia.
  - "The Fountain" is self explanatory, creates a unique gray fountain.
  - "Wishing Fountain" is just so fountains have a use, even a useless one.

Corrections, fixes, ideas, etc would all be highly appreciated.


Very nice! I really like the idea of this adnd this is really quite good for a first proposal. The MMI *really* needs some work, but otherwise, nice job.

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 3:39 AM, Cuddle Beam <> wrote:

I think non-Proc/Prod facilities would be great. Walls or streets for
example would be cool.

On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 1:01 AM, Aris Merchant <> wrote:

I'd go with solution 2, but modified. What if we made it so that each
facility could fit into (0 or more) "categories", and defined Production
and Processing as categories. That way, we could extend it later without
dealing with an exponential increase in the number of types. It also
flexibility if we want to do 3 later.


On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 2:15 PM Kenyon Prater <>

I ran into a problem that I figured I'd share and ask for input.

"Asset Generation with Facilities" specifies that "Each facility is
a production facility or processing facility". The draft up there
that a fountain is a facility, but that it neither produces nor
anything. There are a couple solutions that I see:

1) A fountain is a production facility that produces nothing, or a
processing facility that processes nothing. Easy, kinda a hack, but
2) Modify "Asset Generation with Facilities" so facilities can have a
of any element in {None, Production, Processing, Production &
and fountains are type None.
3) Define "buildings" as a superset/superclass of facilities, move the
shared rules to new rules about Buildings, and have fountain and
be types of buildings with their own specific sub-rules. Easily the
flexible, but requires a fairly significant refactor, so it only really
seems worth it if this is going to be a recurring problem. If the
is the only non-facility-facility we add, we might as well go with 1 or
If we're adding a ton of non-production buildings (arenas, houses,
whatever) then this might be worth it?

Not sure if there's a smarter solution here, but I just wanted to get
feedback to see if people were OK with 1 or if they thought 2 and 3
better, or if there's another option I didn't consider.


On Thu, Mar 1, 2018 at 10:32 AM, Reuben Staley <>

Comments inline.

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 5:22 PM, Aris Merchant
<> wrote:
I like this. I'll have more detailed comments when it's typed up
in a
proposal, but I think that this fits with the spirit of what we're
for. Certainly it is a good idea to have a neutral spawn point,
colors don't mean that much yet. I suggest just calling the
"fountain", and letting people refer to it as "the fountain",
there's only one. You could even make it an explicit singleton.
to the effect of "There is a unique facility, know as 'the
(0, 0). It... <properties>." I'd also suggest not referencing
  Rule 2029 by number (and definitely don't include the revision
Instead, either just say "the town fountain", or let people figure
for themselves (my personal favored option).

I agree with everything Aris said here.


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:05 PM Kenyon Prater <


A very rough draft for a proposal. I'm going to hold off on
until the current mess is resolved, but I wanted to get feedback
the idea is interesting to people

The proposal would: {

Create a Land Type of "Gray". Land that has Land Type "Gray" is

Gray land cannot support any facilities except those specifically
stated to
be allowed on gray land. If land becomes gray land, any facilities
are destroyed, except for those specifically stated to be allowed

Maybe to avoid redundancy, you could term these facilities "gray
facilities". Or even make a rule that says "X facilities" where X is
land type in case we decide to restrict the land types some
can be on in the future.

Gray land cannot be owned by any entity other than Agora. If land
Gray land, it is transfered to Agora.

*transferred. Maybe also say that Gray land is always preserved. That
way, no one can modify any of the facilities on the gray land.

Gray land is treated as "the same" as both white and black for the
of movement, ie it only costs one apple to move from any
land to
gray, and only one apple to move from gray to any non-aether land.

Set (0, 0) to Gray land.

Create a new facility type "the fountain". Only one the fountain
at any one time. The fountain may exist on gray land, and may only
exist on
gray land. Players MAY and SHOULD think of this fountain as
the one depicted in Rule 2029/0 "Town Fountain". The fountain may
owned by Agora. The fountain has no upkeep cost, and neither
produces anything, except as specified in other proposals.

Just "Fountain" please.

Create a "the fountain" at (0, 0) belonging to Agora.


My goal with the draft was to to;
1) make the number of preserved squares each color had equal.
2) To ensure that the spawn at (0,0) was neutral to both colors
a player residing on one of the colors has to spend an extra apple
back home as compared to somebody residing equally far on the
3) To provide a meeting ground for players for future rules to
could imagine a rule specifying that all players at (0,0) on
Birthday CAN [do something]. Or this could be integrated into the
reform; to rid themselves of weevils/blots/whatever, players must
make a
pilgrimage to the fountain to give [currency].

Very nice. Perhaps Cuddlebeam's idea for arenas could have a physical
manifestation on a piece of gray land. This also makes it really nice
for future Agora-sponsored activities that take place on a map.


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