There's good aspects to both methods.
How about an alternating thing: switch auction types every other auction.
On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> Specifically in reference to G.'s third point here, you can go ahead and
> propose a single auction switch and you would likely get plenty of votes.
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 10:43 Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > 1. It was thought that being able to target land units you actually
> > wanted geographically was better for strategy and would promote
> > interesting auctions (you could decide to bid a lot for land units
> > close to the center or less for units on the periphery).
> >
> > 2. It gave a big advantage to people with zombies who could place
> > multiple bids (that can be fixed but it wasn't at the time). That's
> > in part how Corona's monopoly started.
> >
> > 3. Not everyone agreed with the change.
> >
> > On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> > > Can I ask why the land auction was split into five originally? Unless
> > I'm misunderstanding something, having it as one auction with five lots
> > ensures that each lot goes to a different person, which makes it impossible
> > for one person to monopolise land as Corona seems to be planning to do
> > imminently.
> > >
> > > -twg
> > >
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On June 29, 2018 3:51 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the explanation.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This. This is exactly what I was about to respond with.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 09:47 Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > What's not working?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. land transfiguration (kind of the reason land types exist in
> > the first
> > > > > >
> > > > > > place) is useless
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. I think I can make a terribly overpowered lv. 5 refinery (13
> > coins/1
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ore) next week, meaning I'll have so many coins that nobody
> > else will be
> > > > > >
> > > > > > able to win any more land, ever.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Kerim Aydin
> > ke...@u.washington.edu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > So I've been planning land purchases, upgrades, and production
> > flow for
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the next month, it's been fun to do. It's a nice little resource
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > management/placement game right now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But each/every proposal like this throws such planning out the
> > window.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If something like this goes through atm, I'm probably going to
> > check out
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > of the land game and not bother to plan or play again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At what point do we not change things for a bit and just play?
> > What
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > isn't working with the present system? Sometimes you should play
> > the
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > basic game a few times before adding expansion sets...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well, since ranks would no longer exist, why would we need
> > anything
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > but a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > flat rate?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 09:28 Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It did, it's just that nobody discussed it, I guess. Why did
> > you
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > change the
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > upkeep of the processing facilities to 5 coins flat in the
> > second
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > email?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ~Corona
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Reuben Staley <
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think this email didn't get sent to you guys, so I'm
> > just going
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > forward it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > From: Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 16:50
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: DIS: Proto: MALF
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To: Agora Discussion agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Name: More Advanced Land Features
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > AI: TBD
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Author: Trigon
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Co-authors:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ PART I: CLEAN-UP ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ PART I, SECTION I: GLATF ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ There are no technical problems with the rules
> > introduced by Gray
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Land
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and the Fountain, but these could be added to already
> > existing
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > rules
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > to reduce clutter. Currently, there are six rules that
> > contain
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > one or two paragraphs. I think this is inefficient, so I'm
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > repealing
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > all these rules and sticking them onto more relevant ones.
> > ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Repeal Rule 2568 "Facility Colors".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend Rule 2567 "Facility Categories" by replacing its
> > text with:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Each facility can be either a Production, Processing,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Monument, or
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Miscellaneous Facility. This is to be set by the
> > rule that
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > defines
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > that facility type.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A facility has a number of Allowed Land Types not
> > equal to
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 0.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > is to be set by the rule that defines the facility
> > type. If
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > it is
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > not set by that rule, the facility type's Allowed
> > Land Types
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Black and White.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a facility
> > cannot
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > have
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element
> > of its
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Allowed
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Land Types. If an action or set of actions would
> > cause a
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > facility
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > to be created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land
> > Type is not
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > element of its Allowed Land Types, that action or
> > set of
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > actions
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > FAILS. If a facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type
> > is
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > flipped to
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > a Land Type that is not in that facility's Allowed
> > Land
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Types,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > that facility is destroyed.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > An "x facility", where x is a valid Land Type,
> > refers to a
> > > > > > > > > > facility that has x in its Allowed Land Types.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Repeal Rule 2569 "Gray Land".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend Rule 2565 "Land Types" by appending:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, Gray Land Units are
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > always
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > preserved.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Repeal Rule 2571 "The Fountain" and Rule 2572 "Wishing
> > Fountain".
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend Rule 2570 "Monument Facilities" by appending:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The following facilities are considered Monument
> > Facilities:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. The Fountain
> > > > > > > > > > - Allowed Land Types: Gray
> > > > > > > > > > - Special Effects: If a player's location is
> > the same
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the fountain, e CAN transfer a coin to the
> > fountain
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Throw A Coin into the fountain. This does
> > nothing,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > unless
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > specified in another Rule. A player MAY
> > announce
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what e
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > wishes for when e Throws A Coin.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ PART I, SECTION II: CURRENCY FIXES ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ This should've been done a long time ago. Also this
> > supports some
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > other things I'm about to propose. ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend Rule 2483 "Economics" by replacing its text with:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The following currencies, collectively called Economic
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Assets,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > are defined and tracked by the Treasuror. They can
> > be owned
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > by
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Agora, players, contracts, and facilities.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. stones (u)
> > > > > > > > > > 2. apples (u)
> > > > > > > > > > 3. carrots (u)
> > > > > > > > > > 4. incense (u)
> > > > > > > > > > 5. coal (u)
> > > > > > > > > > 6. ore (a)
> > > > > > > > > > 7. lumber (a)
> > > > > > > > > > 8. cotton (a)
> > > > > > > > > > 9. coins (r)
> > > > > > > > > > 10. papers (r)
> > > > > > > > > > 11. fabric (r)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Those marked with a (u) are Unrefinable Economic
> > Assets.
> > > > > > > > > > Those marked with a (a) are Refinable Economic
> > Assets.
> > > > > > > > > > Those marked with a (r) are Refined Economic Assets.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Coins are the official currency of Agora.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ PART II: REVAMPING MOVEMENT ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ This section brings back a system formerly called Action
> > Units. I
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > didn't include this mechanic in the original PAoaM proposal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > since
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > looked very similar to Action Points, a very unpopular
> > system at
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > time. But I think it allows for better movement options,
> > so I'm
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > reinstituting it. This also touches on some of Corona's
> > ideas
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > prioritizing small groups of land units. ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text
> > with:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > player
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > switch. Players can destroy one apple to increase
> > eir Energy
> > > > > > > > > > Points by one. Players can destroy one carrt to
> > increase eir
> > > > > > > > > > Energy Points by three. At the beginning of the
> > week, each
> > > > > > > > > > player's Energy Points switch is flipped to 0.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any player can decrease eir Energy Points by:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. 1 to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit
> > if their
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Land
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Types differ and the destination is not Aether;
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. 2 to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit
> > if their
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Land
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Types are the same and the destination is not
> > Aether;
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3. 2 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit which e
> > owns to an
> > > > > > > > > > alternating Land Type.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 4. 2 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit which e
> > owns and is
> > > > > > > > > > located on to eir choice of either Black or
> > White.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 5. 3 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is
> > adjacent to
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Entity's current location, is of type Aether,
> > and is
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > owned
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > by
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Agora, to an alternating Land Type.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 6. 5 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is of
> > type
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Aether
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and is owned by Agora, to an alternating Land
> > Type.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ PART III: SPECIALIZED FACILITIES ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ This mechanic will give more depth to the Facilities
> > system at
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > expense of adding more stuff for the Treasuror to track.
> > Maybe
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Treasuror needs to be split into two or more positions?
> > Dunno.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > worry about that later. ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Create a new power 2.1 rule entitled "Specializing
> > Facilities" with
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the text:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Specialization is a Facility Switch with the values of
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Normal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > (the default), and any values specified by the rule
> > that
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > created
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the facility type. A player CAN, by announcement,
> > change the
> > > > > > > > > > Specialization switch of a facility e owns and is
> > located on
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Parent Land Unit of by destroying assets equal to
> > any
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > associated
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Specialization fees.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Whenever a facility has its Specialization switch
> > set using
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > method, it neither produces nor refines any assets
> > the next
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > week,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > rules to the contrary notwithstanding.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend Rule 2563 "Production Facilities" by replacing the
> > list with:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Mines
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Build Cost: 5 lumber
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Upkeep Cost: 2n-2 lumber
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Production Details: 3n stones
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Specialization Options:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Coal (fee of 3 stones): also produces 2n coal
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Ore (fee of 3 stones): also produces 2n ore
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Upgrade Costs:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 2: 3 coins, 2 lumber
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 3: 4 coins, 4 lumber
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 4: 5 coins, 4 lumber, 3 stones
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 5: 6 coins, 6 lumber, 6 stones, 2 fabric
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Orchards
> > > > > > > > > > - Build Cost: 5 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Upkeep Cost: 2n-2 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Production Details: 3n apples and 3n lumber
> > > > > > > > > > - Specialization Options: none
> > > > > > > > > > - Upgrade Costs:
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 2: 3 coins, 2 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 3: 4 coins, 4 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 4: 5 coins, 4 stones, 3 lumber
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 5: 6 coins, 6 stones, 6 lumber, 2
> > fabric
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3. Farms
> > > > > > > > > > - Build Cost: 2 lumber and 2 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Upkeep Cost: n-1 lumber and n-1 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Production Details: none
> > > > > > > > > > - Specialization Options:
> > > > > > > > > > - Cotton (no fee): produces 3n cotton
> > > > > > > > > > - Carrot (no fee): produces 3n carrots
> > > > > > > > > > - Upgrade Costs:
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 2: 3 coins, 1 lumber, 1 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 3: 4 coins, 2 lumber, 2 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 4: 5 coins, 3 lumber, 3 stones, 1
> > fabric
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 5: 6 coins, 4 lumber, 4 stones, 2
> > fabric
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 4. Temples
> > > > > > > > > > - Build Cost: 2 lumber and 3 fabric
> > > > > > > > > > - Upkeep Cost: n-1 fabric
> > > > > > > > > > - Production Details: 3n incense
> > > > > > > > > > - Specialization Options: none
> > > > > > > > > > - Upgrade Costs:
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 2: 4 coins, 1 lumber, 1 fabric
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 3: 6 coins, 2 lumber, 3 fabric
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 4: 8 coins, 4 lumber, 2 stones, 5
> > fabric
> > > > > > > > > > - Rank 5: 10 coins, 6 lumber, 4 stones, 7
> > fabric
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend Rule 2563 "Processing Facilities" by replacing the
> > list with:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Refineries
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Build Cost: 4 lumber and 8 stones
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Upkeep Cost: 5 coins
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Processing Details: 1 ore and 1 coal to 5 coins
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Upgrade Costs: no upgrades
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Mills
> > > > > > > > > > - Build Cost: 6 lumber and 6 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Upkeep Cost: 5 coins
> > > > > > > > > > - Processing Details: 1 lumber and 1 coal to 2
> > paper
> > > > > > > > > > - Upgrade Costs: no upgrades
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > 3. Looms
> > > > > > > > > > - Build Cost: 8 lumber and 4 stones
> > > > > > > > > > - Upkeep Cost: 5 coins
> > > > > > > > > > - Processing Details: 1 cotton and 1 coal to 2
> > fabric
> > > > > > > > > > - Upgrade Costs: no upgrades
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Amend Rule 2561 "Asset Generation with Facilities" by
> > adding a new
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > paragraph with the text:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If non-preserved Land Unit A, which has a facility on it,
> > is
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > connected to non-preserved Land Unit B, which has a
> > facility
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > the same category as the facility on Land Unit A at
> > the
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > instant at
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > which it is to produce or refine assets, that
> > facility
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > neither
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > produces nor refines any assets, rules to the
> > contrary
> > > > > > > > > > notwithstanding.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > [ This would be a good time to mention that this fits
> > really well
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Corona's No-Go proposal, so it might make sense to have
> > that one
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > pass
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > before this one. ]
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Trigon
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
