I hate to do this, but I'm going to write up a full repeal. They're
interesting mechanics, but they just don't seem to be much fun to play. I
have a feeling that the problems are systemic enough that no amount of
tweaking will actually fix them. I'm sorry. I know you worked hard on this.


-Aris

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 10:45 AM Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> If we want to "fix" Arcadia, we need to figure out what the underlying
> issues are. So what /are/ the issues with these mechanics?
>
> I did not take zombies into consideration when writing up the original
> PAoaM proposal. Zombies provided a cheap way to get double your monthly
> income when I wanted the only way to gain more income to be by
> interacting with the facilities mechanic. If zombies hadn't been a
> thing, maybe the monopolies wouldn't have been so simple to nail down.
>
> It was unbalanced in ways that I couldn't have forseen. Upgrading
> Processing Facilities is something we're just getting into now, but it's
> an important thing. A rank 5 mine feeding 10 ore a week into a rank 5
> refinery... that is 130 coins a week. Once someone goes a couple weeks
> with this setup, they might be impossible to defeat.
>
> Players also stopped caring. Maybe if we had some of the early adopters
> of the Arcadia mechanics still playing, it would be easier to gang up on
> the monopolists, but many of them have simply stopped caring about these
> mechanics. It's gotten too dramatic.
>
> I was not the best at being an effective Cartographor. I didn't do
> weekly land auctions half of the time. I could have done a lot more to
> ensure healthy development of the map.
>
> PAoaM was a buggy mess that took months to fix. That really hindered
> people's enjoyment of it for ~3 months after it passed.
>
> In my opinion, the Arcadia subgame has gotten progressively less fun due
> to a multitude of reasons. People keep on trying to patch it, but all
> those patches fall through and are either abandoned by their creator or
> they don't actually fix the underlying issues.
>
> But, as G. says here, the underlying issues might not even the biggest
> problem. A lack of knowledge on how these mechanics will effect the game
> is. We. Don't. Playtest. And I don't know how keen others would be on
> trial and error to find a balanced set of mechanics. That sure sounds
> like a borefest to me.
>
> If it's true that to get a perfect set of mechanics is just repeated
> tests, count me with the repeal-the-whole-dang-thing crowd. I think lots
> of us here would agree.
>
> I know I said that I wanted to preserve the Arcadian mechanics as long
> as I could but I'm beginning to think that it really is time to get rid
> of these mechanics. Hopefully someone else can come up with a breakthrough.
>
> On 07/05/2018 11:22 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> >
> > Eh, mark me as someone who would be burned out.
> >
> > It took - hmm, a few months play, a coin/corn bug, and a big payroll from
> > zombies to open up the board (for everyone) and get some land enough to
> get
> > to this point.
> >
> > At this point - with several land - I'm starting to get into the worker
> > placement and currency budgeting part and it's kind of interesting.  I'm
> > even willing to keep trying for a little bit as-is.  But I'm not keen
> > enough to do a reset and go through all that again over months to get to
> > this point.
> >
> > Now maybe your reforms would help substantially, but they're not
> play-tested.
> > If we could tweak in fast-time ("go through" enough rounds without taking
> > weeks to do so each time) we might find a set of rules that worked via
> > playtesting.  Maybe doing auctions differently would help.  But after
> > shinies and then this, I'm not really feeling the commitment to do
> economy
> > round#3 at Agora-speed while waiting for the inevitable crashing bugs.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> >> Reply-to is the worst.
> >>
> >> On 07/05/2018 10:33 AM, Reuben Staley wrote:
> >>> As in resetting the map and giving everyone a welcome-package-sized
> amount
> >>> of resources and making a little spawn island? It might work,
> considering
> >>> that that reform plan was supposed to fix balancing issues. But also I
> think
> >>> that would just make even more people burned out on this subgame.
> >>>
> >>> On 07/05/2018 10:20 AM, Corona wrote:
> >>>> ​What about just resetting the economy (to the same state as when it
> was
> >>>> enacted) while implementing Trigon's planned reforms?
> >>>>
> >>>> ~Corona
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Aaaaand .... yeah, not to do with paper, but on the Coins side I'm
> done
> >>>>> here.
> >>>>> I'll support a full repeal of this mess.  Restraint is not something
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> everyone does well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Corona wrote:
> >>>>>> I bid 32 coins in auction 1.
> >>>>>> I bid 34 coins in auction 5.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ~Corona
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu
> >
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I bid 32 coins in auction 5.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I bid 25 coins in auction 5.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land
> >>>>> units in
> >>>>>>>>> existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my choice
> >>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>> put
> >>>>>>> up for
> >>>>>>>>> auction.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> >>>>>>> auctioneer, and
> >>>>>>>>> the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-6, -1)
> >>>>>>>>> AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +1)
> >>>>>>>>> AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -2)
> >>>>>>>>> AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-6, +2)
> >>>>>>>>> AUCTION 5: the land unit at (+6, -1)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Trigon
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Trigon
> >>
>
> --
> Trigon
>

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