On 6/5/2021 6:23 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-discussion wrote: > On Sat, Jun 5, 2021 at 6:13 PM Kerim Aydin wrote: >> On 6/5/2021 4:55 PM, Aris Merchant via agora-business wrote: >>> Title: Determinacy is a Good Thing >>> Adoption index: 1.7 >>> Author: Aris >> >> Want to lodge a bit of a protest here - paradox to me is inherent to >> Suberian nomic, and if any nomic follows that purist tradition, it's this >> one, so it seems a shame to lose it (as opposed to limiting it). >> >> Sort of like Apathy, it serves as a good check, as it ensures we put >> protections against indeterminacy in various places (currencies, >> switches). Removing the win condition part doesn't make paradoxes go away >> unless we massively revamp our judicial system/concepts as well, and I >> suspect people would do them "just for fun" anyway even if there's no >> game-winning involved. >> >> Of course, if someone wants to go for a full revamp, that's another matter >> (and could be interesting!) > > > This is intended as a referendum on whether we want to have wins by > paradox. I may vote PRESENT, I haven't decided yet. That being said, I > will point out that Agora is still very philosophically disposed to > read paradoxes out of rules by any means necessary. I believe that our > interpretation would be more coherent if we went in that direction. Do > keep in mind that we managed without wins by paradox for a good many > years.
Just for others' reference if interested, the potted history I shared with folks on discord this morning: > Short history: the original (game-ending) Suber paradox rule was > repealed in prehistory and there was nothing about it in the rules for a > while. In 2004-2005, a "genuine" temporal paradox was set up with cards > (a retroactive-acting card cancelling its own play), and people said > "that was fun why isn't that a win condition again?" So it was > implemented then, first using UNDECIDABLE later PARADOXICAL (the first > card paradox was grandfathered in by the proposal making the rule). > > so search for (undecidable or paradoxical) to find them all > > (note: don't confuse it with UNDETERMINED - Insufficient and Paradoxical > used to be Undetermined and Undecidable, we changed the names because > people kept confusing the two) -G.
