I, for one, approve of these shenanigans. And not only because this thesis claims I killed a god. However, I am disappointed that there's no pun on thesis and Theseus in this.
On Saturday, October 18th, 2025 at 9:31 PM, 4st nomic via agora-business <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 11:59 PM Aris via agora-business < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 10:29 AM 4st nomic via agora-business > > [email protected] wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2023 at 6:00 AM juan via agora-business < > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > 4st nomic via agora-business [2023-10-03 16:07]: > > > > > > > > > I resubmit the thesis "Agoran Source of Fun" with a new title > > > > > "Murder of > > > > > a > > > > > God - A Paradox Lost", and it has the text of this message. > > > > > As a reminder, the assigned reviewers of this thesis are juan, > > > > > Aspen, and > > > > > snail.[0] > > > > > > > > > > The Murder of a God > > > > > - A Paradox Lost > > > > > > > > > > (Based on a true story) > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, February 24th, 2023, nix wanted things to be shinier[1], > > > > > and > > > > > was > > > > > finally taking action as Herald to Make It So™. Such was the > > > > > proposal e > > > > > submitted that day. Little did e know of the grave consequence of eir > > > > > action: MURDER. Let us regale the story. > > > > > > > > > > nix, as Herald, was sick and tired of being sick and tired of > > > > > looking for > > > > > Points. Points were nefariously tricky to hunt down and track, as e > > > > > was > > > > > responsible for noting which points were owned by whom, despite them > > > > > looking completely identical. nix had this idea to make them > > > > > radiant, and > > > > > glow in the dark, shine in the light. G and I, selfless as we were, > > > > > looked > > > > > upon this idea, examining it for magical leaks. Finding none, nix > > > > > brought > > > > > it to council, whereupon it was unanimously adopted. At the > > > > > sidelines, > > > > > watching, were Janet, snail, and myself.[2] > > > > > > > > > > Little did we know, we had summoned Theseus. Upon the shore, > > > > > stealthily, > > > > > a > > > > > ship had pulled up, and sitting patiently outside it was Theseus. > > > > > Janet > > > > > and > > > > > snail exchanged glances, then words. "Do we know him? He looks > > > > > familiar..." > > > > > "No, I think we don't. Whoever he is, he's not a player. He needs to > > > > > get > > > > > out of here or register!" "Agreed. But just in case... let's bring > > > > > it to > > > > > council." Both nodding in agreement, they rush inland to > > > > > headquarters, > > > > > and > > > > > announce "There's someone new here! And he's just sitting around!" G, > > > > > arbitor of the council, assigns the task to Murphy. > > > > > > > > > > Murphy treks to shore, to Theseus, and approaches, "Hi, I'm Murphy!" > > > > > "WHO > > > > > DARES SUMMON ME HERE?!" "I'm afraid no one has summoned you here. > > > > > Upon > > > > > this > > > > > little island of Agora remains just us, our horses, our stones, these > > > > > little stamps, and our ribbons." "AH... YES. INDEED, I WAS SUMMONED > > > > > BY A > > > > > STONE! THE STONE YOU CALL... RADIANCE. BRING THIS STONE TO ME." > > > > > Hearing > > > > > this, Murphy heads back to headquarters.[4] Given that this > > > > > situation is > > > > > more tense and demanding than once thought, and given the nature of > > > > > the > > > > > situation, G has nix assemble a team. After all, nix had rewritten > > > > > the > > > > > laws > > > > > surrounding the stone. nix chooses to bring Janet and snail, as they > > > > > had > > > > > spotted the stranger first, and they had previously fought about the > > > > > stone. > > > > > Maybe that had something to do with the situation, after all. > > > > > > > > > > The team arrives at Theseus and presents the stone. "I AM THESEUS, > > > > > ONE OF > > > > > THE GREAT GODS OF PARADOX. I WAS SUMMONED BECAUSE THIS STONE IS > > > > > FEELING > > > > > UNWELL: IT DOES NOT KNOW WHOM IT BELONGS TO, FOR ALL IT'S PARTS HAVE > > > > > BEEN > > > > > REPLACED. MY FATE NOW LIES WITH YOU: DOES IT BELONG TO THE PREVIOUS > > > > > OWNER, > > > > > OR THE OWNER OF THE PARTS?" To this conundrum, nix replies coldly, > > > > > "Give > > > > > me > > > > > 3 days, and we'll present you with an answer." > > > > > > > > > > It is known what is to be done. It's been done before, after all. > > > > > Which > > > > > is > > > > > why everyone left, and Theseus was given 3 days. nix arrives alone, > > > > > so > > > > > that > > > > > none should have to see the shame the island of Agora hides, and e > > > > > approaches Theseus, hesitant to approach a god. However, the Law > > > > > protects > > > > > all Agorans, and this knowledge gave nix the strength to confront > > > > > him. > > > > > "WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER?" nix stammers and stutters for a moment... > > > > > "s-snail > > > > > owns the stone, for it is the s-same stone that belonged to snail > > > > > prior > > > > > to > > > > > us replacing every s-single piece of it." nix pauses for a long > > > > > moment, > > > > > and > > > > > they stare at eachother. Theseus has sadness in his eyes, but simply > > > > > nods > > > > > at nix. With this permission, nix quietly delivers the lethal > > > > > phrase: "So > > > > > it is written in the Law of Agora."[5] Theseus, painfully speaks his > > > > > last > > > > > words, "So be it." before keeling over, for it is true that Agoran > > > > > Law > > > > > has > > > > > the power to kill gods. > > > > > > > > > > Theseus's ship, not wanting to suffer the same fate, lowers its > > > > > sails and > > > > > quickly makes a break for it, for it too has been replaced in its > > > > > entirety, > > > > > however, the magic granted by Theseus that grants it a soul, and it > > > > > did > > > > > not > > > > > want to know if it too was vulnerable to the Law. > > > > > > > > > > A short, related tale has Theseus's heart beat once before returning > > > > > to > > > > > its > > > > > death: > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, April 26th, 2023, secretsnail[6] awoke and decided > > > > > that day > > > > > was the day to fix things. Fix one thing in particular: One stone. > > > > > One > > > > > stone was useless, cast aside, and maybe after being weathered in the > > > > > sands > > > > > of time, could even be misconstrued as something else. secretsnail > > > > > had an > > > > > affinity for horses, and created the Jockey stone. The only trouble > > > > > was... > > > > > the horses were dying. Mercifully, Janet put an end to them.[9] > > > > > Fixing > > > > > the > > > > > stone meant clearing those bad memories. > > > > > > > > > > So, e worked tirelessly, and provided a blueprint to reconstruct this > > > > > stone. A proposal. Solemnly accepted by the Agora[8]. 38:8. Only 1 > > > > > vote > > > > > against. Me[7]. I am not even sure why I did it. I was just joking > > > > > around. > > > > > You know, as I do. As I am still doing. As this "thesis" can attest > > > > > to. > > > > > > > > > > Once accepted, secretsnail proceeded to enact the blueprint, > > > > > transforming > > > > > the rock, chipping away at it. For each piece e removed from it, e > > > > > replaced > > > > > it with another. In this way, it was transformed. It was done this > > > > > way, > > > > > as > > > > > e hadn't wanted the power, the magic, to disappear from the world. I > > > > > don't > > > > > think any of us did. > > > > > > > > > > No one owned the Jockey stone prior to its becoming of Minty stone, > > > > > and > > > > > so, > > > > > no one cared to look for Theseus's ship again, nor did anyone care to > > > > > check > > > > > on Theseus's corpse, which remains statuesque upon the shores of > > > > > Agora. > > > > > To > > > > > this day, his ship still sails far from Agora, where we have claimed > > > > > to > > > > > have solved this paradox. > > > > > > > > > > This second tale gives us hope that maybe someday, the gods can be > > > > > reborn. > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg44061.html > > > > > > > Proposal 8919, wherein Theseus hides. > > > > > [2] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg13079.html > > > > > > > Adoption of 8919, whereupon Theseus is summoned. > > > > > [3] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg44201.html > > > > > > > The calling of CFJ 4018, whereupon Janet and snail spot Theseus. > > > > > [4] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg13128.html > > > > > > > Whereupon CFJ 4018 is taken from Murphy and assigned to nix. > > > > > [5] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg44327.html > > > > > > > The resolution of CFJ 4018, whereupon nix murders Theseus. > > > > > [6] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg44619.html > > > > > > > Minty Stone submission. > > > > > [7] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg13228.html > > > > > > > Minty Stone adopted. > > > > > [8] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg44626.html > > > > > > > My record of the vote against the Minty Stone. > > > > > [9] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg13176.html > > > > > > > The slaughter of the horses. > > > > > [0] > > > > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg45188.html > > > > > > > The old thesis review board convening. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > 4ˢᵗ > > > > > > > > > > Uncertified Bad Idea Generator > > > > > > > > I nominate this thesis for a Magisteriate of Nomic Art and I would > > > > nominate it for an Associate in Nomic History if it existed. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > juan > > > > > > WHEREIN, it has been 7 days since resubmission, and the assigned > > > reviewers > > > have not given any response whatsoever: whether it be feedback, > > > requesting > > > more time to review, or that they will not review it for any reason. > > > > > > THEREFORE, I petition the Prime Ministor to use a dive order on snail or > > > Aris, (since e can only perform it one at a time). They unofficially > > > signed > > > up to do this, and there is no other mechanism to blot them willy-nilly. > > > > > > ADDITIONALLY, I also ask for feedback from anyone else. I would ask for > > > review from Janet, however, Janet has already expressed that it is not > > > worthy of feedback in the form it was submitted in, which I think counts > > > as > > > feedback/review. > > > > > > ALAS, I would like to intend to award myself the degree now, however, it > > > does not yet feel like it has undergone proper review, and as such, would > > > probably not meet the 2 Agoran Consent threshold in the first place. > > > > I was assigned to review your prior thesis. This thesis appears to be > > an altogether different thesis, your purportations to the contrary > > notwithstanding, and I am under no obligation to dignify it with a > > response. > > > > However, out of a spirit of generosity and mercy, I will reply > > briefly. In the first place, I agree with my honorable friend Janet, > > who said "This is a blatant abuse of process and should not be > > countenanced." Secondly, this work seems to be intended as an artistic > > statement; however, I find it abstruse, confusing, and difficult to > > comprehend, rather than seeing it as artistically meritorious. As my > > honorable colleague snail said, "All in all this feels like a dressing > > of an interesting case with a theme that doesn't exactly match up and > > isn't presented well". > > > > Know all persons by these presents that I find this thesis NOT > > SUITABLE FOR DEGREE. > > > > -Aris, who is deliberately trying to sound even stuffier than usual > > > Just as the Radiance stone had its effect and name changed, so too has this > thesis gone under the same metamorphosis of its title and text changing, > yet, as you claim, it is a different thesis. Who makes the call on whether > it is a different or the same difference? Is this due to how one quality is > unchanged, that I am still the same submitter? Shall we put it before the > court as we had put the score stone to court, whereupon said radiance stone > was also considered to be the same stone and thus having the same owner? > > Is this not exactly what the Ship of Theseus paradox is about? It is the > common ambiguity that Agorans face as the rules change and entities are > created and mutated and destroyed. As the entities are not physical they > are also not bound to the same laws of time and existence, and therefore, > can exist in the superpositions of being both and neither until a > measurement is made. > > I will admit: the abstrusity, confundity, and incomprehensibility could use > some work. Of course such an artistic piece would make sense to me, I am > filling in gaps I cannot see. I would appreciate a little more assistance > and guidance on this matter from any at all. > I will also admit: this is an implied abuse, which is exactly what nomic is > about: to exploit undefined, ambiguous, and/or incongruent, or behaviors. > > With regard to snail's point, I am unsure of which pronoun is in err, and > could use help in the erroneous pronoun as well. Theseus is a king, and is > therefore a he. Spivak pronouns are used for nix and snail. The ship is an > object and is therefore an it. And group pronouns are we's and they's. So > this is a specific gap I cannot see, but I apologize to any who are > offended in advance, I thought I had checked carefully the pronouns had > matched... > > With regard to theming... I thought that had followed naturally from the > fact that the Ship of Theseus is a boat and that Theseus is Greek. I have > missed a step, or I do not understand what is meant by theme in this > feedback. > > Overall... The main points I wished to make in this thesis are that: > -- This thesis is similar to the Radiance Stone, the Ship of Theseus, and > the Jockey Stone. > b) That Agorans take an approach to ambiguity that is the same approach > quantum theory takes to spin: That the measurement of an entity determines > its qualities, not that an entity necessarily and inherently has those > qualities prior to measurement. > 3) It's a fun little story with some (hopefully obvious or at least > hyperbolic) liberties, highlighting that nomic is a game, and as such, > levity and creativity is encouraged. > > Heretofore, I pronounce to all: I request-eth thine assistance! > > -- > 4ˢᵗ > wearing Jester's Cap > Uncertified Bad Idea Generator
