[The panel has definitely judged by now, the timing shown here assumes 2835 is FALSE]
Detail: http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=2830 ============== Criminal Case 2830 (Interest Index = 1) =============== comex violated the Power-1 Rule 2215 (Truthiness) by publishing a statement alleging that e awarded emself a White Ribbon when e CANNOT do so. ======================================================================== Caller: coppro Barred: omd Judge: Yally Judgement: GUILTY/COMMUNITY SERVICE Appeal: 2830a Decision: REMAND Judge: Yally Judgement: ======================================================================== History: Called by coppro: 12 Aug 2010 18:40:49 GMT Assigned to Yally: 13 Aug 2010 08:55:39 GMT Judged GUILTY/COMMUNITY SERVICE by Yally: 13 Aug 2010 19:33:28 GMT Appealed by omd: 13 Aug 2010 19:59:46 GMT Appeal 2830a: 13 Aug 2010 19:59:46 GMT REMANDED on Appeal: 21 Aug 2010 02:39:42 GMT Remanded to Yally: 21 Aug 2010 02:39:42 GMT ======================================================================== Caller's Arguments: These NoV are valid; they are NoVs 59 and 60, respectively. I contest them and initiate criminal CFJs from them; I suggest maximal penalties as almost every one of the statements constitutes an individual violation and is separately punishable. ======================================================================== Caller's Evidence: On 08/12/2010 12:31 PM, comex wrote: > Note: Some of these actions may fail. > > I award ais523 a Blue Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Blue Ribbon. > I award Andon a Blue Ribbon. > I award comex a Blue Ribbon. > I award coppro a Blue Ribbon. > I award ehird a Blue Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Blue Ribbon. > I award G. a Blue Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Blue Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Blue Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Blue Ribbon. > I award Taral a Blue Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Blue Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Blue Ribbon. > I award woggle a Blue Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Blue Ribbon. > I award Yally a Blue Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Green Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Green Ribbon. > I award Andon a Green Ribbon. > I award comex a Green Ribbon. > I award coppro a Green Ribbon. > I award ehird a Green Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Green Ribbon. > I award G. a Green Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Green Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Green Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Green Ribbon. > I award Taral a Green Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Green Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Green Ribbon. > I award woggle a Green Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Green Ribbon. > I award Yally a Green Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Magenta Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Andon a Magenta Ribbon. > I award comex a Magenta Ribbon. > I award coppro a Magenta Ribbon. > I award ehird a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Magenta Ribbon. > I award G. a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Taral a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Magenta Ribbon. > I award woggle a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Yally a Magenta Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Orange Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Orange Ribbon. > I award Andon a Orange Ribbon. > I award comex a Orange Ribbon. > I award coppro a Orange Ribbon. > I award ehird a Orange Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Orange Ribbon. > I award G. a Orange Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Orange Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Orange Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Orange Ribbon. > I award Taral a Orange Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Orange Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Orange Ribbon. > I award woggle a Orange Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Orange Ribbon. > I award Yally a Orange Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Platinum Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Andon a Platinum Ribbon. > I award comex a Platinum Ribbon. > I award coppro a Platinum Ribbon. > I award ehird a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Platinum Ribbon. > I award G. a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Taral a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Platinum Ribbon. > I award woggle a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Yally a Platinum Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Red Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Red Ribbon. > I award Andon a Red Ribbon. > I award comex a Red Ribbon. > I award coppro a Red Ribbon. > I award ehird a Red Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Red Ribbon. > I award G. a Red Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Red Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Red Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Red Ribbon. > I award Taral a Red Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Red Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Red Ribbon. > I award woggle a Red Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Red Ribbon. > I award Yally a Red Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Silver Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Silver Ribbon. > I award Andon a Silver Ribbon. > I award comex a Silver Ribbon. > I award coppro a Silver Ribbon. > I award ehird a Silver Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Silver Ribbon. > I award G. a Silver Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Silver Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Silver Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Silver Ribbon. > I award Taral a Silver Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Silver Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Silver Ribbon. > I award woggle a Silver Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Silver Ribbon. > I award Yally a Silver Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Andon a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award comex a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award coppro a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award ehird a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award G. a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Taral a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award woggle a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Yally a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award ais523 a White Ribbon. > I award allispaul a White Ribbon. > I award Andon a White Ribbon. > I award comex a White Ribbon. > I award coppro a White Ribbon. > I award ehird a White Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a White Ribbon. > I award G. a White Ribbon. > I award Murphy a White Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a White Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a White Ribbon. > I award Taral a White Ribbon. > I award Tiger a White Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a White Ribbon. > I award woggle a White Ribbon. > I award Wooble a White Ribbon. > I award Yally a White Ribbon. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by omd: I contest both of these as the disclaimer clearly stated that some of the actions might fail. ======================================================================== Judge Yally's Arguments: Rule 2215 reads: A person SHALL NOT make a public statement on a matter relevant to the rules unless e reasonably believes that it is true (or, in the case of a public statement that one performs an action, that it is thereby effective). omd (comex) has made a plethora of public statements which e can not reasonably believe are true. In this specific instance, it's unreasonable to assume that omd thought that he had recently registered or had been named as someone's mentor, or otherwise failed any of the conditions required by Rule 1504 for guilt. Accordingly, I judge omd to be GUILTY. Because omd did not seem to be cheating the system or failing eir responsibilities, but rather simply being obnoxious to the Herald, I sentence omd to COMMUNITY SERVICE. This community service will consist of two tasks. The first is that omd must apologize to Agora in writing using at least 200 words, six of which must be the following prescribed words: {{{ Herald ribbon scam sorry aeronautical carper }}} and in this apology omd must explain eir error, shame, remorse, and ardent desire for self-improvement. The second required task is that omd must determine which of the following attempted actions: > I award ais523 a Blue Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Blue Ribbon. > I award Andon a Blue Ribbon. > I award comex a Blue Ribbon. > I award coppro a Blue Ribbon. > I award ehird a Blue Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Blue Ribbon. > I award G. a Blue Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Blue Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Blue Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Blue Ribbon. > I award Taral a Blue Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Blue Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Blue Ribbon. > I award woggle a Blue Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Blue Ribbon. > I award Yally a Blue Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Green Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Green Ribbon. > I award Andon a Green Ribbon. > I award comex a Green Ribbon. > I award coppro a Green Ribbon. > I award ehird a Green Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Green Ribbon. > I award G. a Green Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Green Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Green Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Green Ribbon. > I award Taral a Green Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Green Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Green Ribbon. > I award woggle a Green Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Green Ribbon. > I award Yally a Green Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Magenta Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Andon a Magenta Ribbon. > I award comex a Magenta Ribbon. > I award coppro a Magenta Ribbon. > I award ehird a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Magenta Ribbon. > I award G. a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Taral a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Magenta Ribbon. > I award woggle a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Magenta Ribbon. > I award Yally a Magenta Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Orange Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Orange Ribbon. > I award Andon a Orange Ribbon. > I award comex a Orange Ribbon. > I award coppro a Orange Ribbon. > I award ehird a Orange Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Orange Ribbon. > I award G. a Orange Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Orange Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Orange Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Orange Ribbon. > I award Taral a Orange Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Orange Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Orange Ribbon. > I award woggle a Orange Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Orange Ribbon. > I award Yally a Orange Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Platinum Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Andon a Platinum Ribbon. > I award comex a Platinum Ribbon. > I award coppro a Platinum Ribbon. > I award ehird a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Platinum Ribbon. > I award G. a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Taral a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Platinum Ribbon. > I award woggle a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Platinum Ribbon. > I award Yally a Platinum Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Red Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Red Ribbon. > I award Andon a Red Ribbon. > I award comex a Red Ribbon. > I award coppro a Red Ribbon. > I award ehird a Red Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Red Ribbon. > I award G. a Red Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Red Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Red Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Red Ribbon. > I award Taral a Red Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Red Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Red Ribbon. > I award woggle a Red Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Red Ribbon. > I award Yally a Red Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Silver Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Silver Ribbon. > I award Andon a Silver Ribbon. > I award comex a Silver Ribbon. > I award coppro a Silver Ribbon. > I award ehird a Silver Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Silver Ribbon. > I award G. a Silver Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Silver Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Silver Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Silver Ribbon. > I award Taral a Silver Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Silver Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Silver Ribbon. > I award woggle a Silver Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Silver Ribbon. > I award Yally a Silver Ribbon. > I award ais523 a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award allispaul a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Andon a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award comex a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award coppro a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award ehird a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award G. a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Murphy a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Taral a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Tiger a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award woggle a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Wooble a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award Yally a Ultraviolet Ribbon. > I award ais523 a White Ribbon. > I award allispaul a White Ribbon. > I award Andon a White Ribbon. > I award comex a White Ribbon. > I award coppro a White Ribbon. > I award ehird a White Ribbon. > I award Epaeris a White Ribbon. > I award G. a White Ribbon. > I award Murphy a White Ribbon. > I award Sgeo a White Ribbon. > I award Spitemaster a White Ribbon. > I award Taral a White Ribbon. > I award Tiger a White Ribbon. > I award Warrigal a White Ribbon. > I award woggle a White Ribbon. > I award Wooble a White Ribbon. > I award Yally a White Ribbon. actually succeeded and publicly announce eir findings. ======================================================================== Detail: http://zenith.homelinux.net/cotc/viewcase.php?cfj=2830a ================= Appeal 2830a (Interest Index = 0) ================== Panelist: Murphy Decision: REMAND Panelist: G. Decision: REMAND Panelist: Tanner L. Swett Decision: REMAND ======================================================================== History: Appeal initiated: 13 Aug 2010 19:59:46 GMT Assigned to Murphy (panelist): 14 Aug 2010 02:39:42 GMT Assigned to G. (panelist): 14 Aug 2010 02:39:42 GMT Assigned to Tanner L. Swett (panelist): 14 Aug 2010 02:39:42 GMT Tanner L. Swett moves to REMAND: 15 Aug 2010 01:39:12 GMT Murphy moves to REMAND: 16 Aug 2010 18:36:50 GMT G. moves to REMAND: 16 Aug 2010 18:51:26 GMT Final decision (REMAND): 21 Aug 2010 02:39:42 GMT ======================================================================== Appellant omd's Arguments: I appeal this. Taking actions with disclaimers is a relatively common practice, and has always been accepted as shorthand for specifying "If possible, I do X" in the rest of the message. Whether my succeeded in doing anything might be ambiguous, though. See the confused progression of CFJs 1935 1971, 2069, and (especially) 2227. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by Murphy: I opine AFFIRM without prejudice. The original judgement suggests a precedent that even a disclaimered statement violates Truthiness if you don't reasonably believe it could be true. Also, I think the disclaimer was general enough to render the whole list ineffective. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by Tanner L. Swett: This, this. On Sat, Aug 14, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Warrigal <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Ed Murphy <[email protected]> wrot= e: >> I opine AFFIRM without prejudice. The original judgement suggests a >> precedent that even a disclaimered statement violates Truthiness if you >> don't reasonably believe it could be true. > > I opine AFFIRM without prejudice for the same reason. > > -Judicial Panelist Tanner L. Swett ======================================================================== Panelist Tanner L. Swett's Arguments: Eh, I opine REMAND without prejudice, noting that the judge apparently overlooked the presence of a disclaimer. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by G.: Aaand... this. On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On Fri, 13 Aug 2010, Ed Murphy wrote: > > I opine AFFIRM without prejudice. The original judgement suggests a > > precedent that even a disclaimered statement violates Truthiness if you > > don't reasonably believe it could be true. > > > > Also, I think the disclaimer was general enough to render the whole > > list ineffective. > > This is a contradictory pair of statements. I side with the latter statement, > therefore I opine OVERTURN/NOT GUILTY without prejudice. ======================================================================== Gratuitous Arguments by Murphy: There was not necessarily a contradiction in those arguments. As I understood it, Yally's judgement (still up in the air, but at least it's been put forth for consideration) amounts to: Stating "X (disclaimer: Y)", while fully aware that X is false for reasons unrelated to Y, may violate Truthiness despite the disclaimer. Now this *may* fall apart on the grounds that Y is overly broad and thus is related to X after all. (I would've changed my opinion to REMAND, but I thought all three opinions had already been given; I missed that the second and third opinion messages were both from Tanner.) But it may not. The relevant precedent was of the form "single statement (disclaimer: this may fail)", while this case pertains to the form "series of statements (disclaimer: some of these may fail)" - and we might decide to interpret that "some" is sufficient to imply "because I CANNOT, because the recipient doesn't qualify". ======================================================================== Panelist Murphy's Arguments: I revise my opinion to REMAND without prejudice, recommending that the original judge explicitly address how the form "series of actions (disclaimer: some of these may fail)" compares to the form "single action (disclaimer: this may fail)" the latter of which is held by precedent to amount to a null statement (due to overly broad disclaimer), thus unable to violate Truthiness. ======================================================================== Panelist G.'s Arguments: I forgot that opinions could be revised nowadays; I would have asked if you were willing to remand first rather than jumping to overrule. I revise my opinion to REMAND without prejudice. ========================================================================
