very true Avinash, I had seen such blinds long ago in 1992 to 1995 in
Mumbai blinds freely travelling in mumbai locals.

On 8/7/17, avinash shahi via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote:
> Without offending anyone, I believe that poverty is a great enabler if
> one is totally blind. My friends who travel by bus/metro/train  are
> more assertive/independent while negotiating challenges than those who
> travel by car/airplane. I'd be happy if someone could disapprove this
> hypotheses. English-speaking blind individuals may be good at
> delivering lectures/talking worldly affairs, but non-English blind
> individuals are good at living independently.poor blind individual is
> more likely to marry a blind girl; the rich blind individual however
> goes for a sighted one. Why, cause a poor blind is more confident
> that he/she will be able to take on challenges as blind couple.
>
>
>  On 8/7/17, Asudani, Rajesh via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in>
> wrote:
>> Had not thought to write, since it is a very tricky question and there is
>> a
>> very fine line of distinction between being concerned and being
>> overprotective when it comes to children with disabilities.
>> Being one of the five siblings with blindness in my family, I have
>> experienced all the methods suggested here for gaining a reasonable
>> degree
>> of independence.
>>
>> Let me clarify I am not a votary of hyper independence.
>> As I had said about six years back in retina India controversy, An escort
>> is
>> a necessity for a totally blind person, if it is available, affordable
>> and
>> there are no privacy concerns.
>> It however does not mean a blind person cannot and should not travel
>> alone
>> at all.
>>
>> Now, the big question is who that escort should be.
>> If friends, then they must be reliable friends.
>> Not only that, It should be brought home to parents that the friends are
>> reliable.
>> Besides, if hired escort is available, why not, since we can have better
>> control over a person we are paying.
>>
>> Escorting from a distance may also be tried, just to keep out of harm's
>> way,
>> as I am fond of saying, it does not take even half an  accident to......
>>
>>
>> Rajesh
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf Of
>> Shireen Irani via Ai
>> Sent: Monday, August 07, 2017 1:57 PM
>> To: Share, empower &Enrich
>> Cc: Shireen Irani
>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a regressive
>> view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>
>> hi rahul,
>>
>> since you are sort of trying to come to terms with adopting not very
>> comfortable means as a last resort, I'm gonna suggest 1 last 1, and
>> then you could choose the safer option from the 2.
>>
>> what if a few of us, perhaps your friends, and a couple of seniors
>> from the community, meet with your parent/s, and sit for a couple of
>> hours trying to reason things out with them? I know it might sound a
>> bit intrusive, but again, in my experience a calm conversation with
>> outsiders is sometimes more effective for changing minds, because 1
>> gets used to not taking home members too seriously with issues related
>> to change. I think you mentioned that the parent in question lives in
>> a different city? in which case we could either wait till they're all
>> in the same city at some point, or gather a team from the city where
>> he resides.
>>
>> do think about it, it may not be as bad as what you might instantly
>> imagine. and you may not have much to loos, even if there's no
>> success. but I'm reasonably confident that there may be some hope for
>> change.
>>
>> again, this is just 1 of many suggestions, without meaning to be
>> intrusive.
>>
>> best,
>>
>> Shireen.
>>
>>
>> On 8/7/17, George Abraham via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in>
>> wrote:
>>> One more small point. Unless one is financial independent can one take
>>> such
>>> a stand with the parents. This is true for even non disabled children.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Kanchan Pamnani via Ai
>>> Sent: 05 August 2017 17:16
>>> To: 'Share, empower &Enrich'
>>> Cc: Kanchan Pamnani
>>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a
>>> regressive
>>> view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>>
>>> Rahul,
>>> You cannot execute and then inform if you want to travel.
>>> Plan well  without informing your parents. Only inform them when you are
>>> absolutely sure.
>>> Your words should be that "I am going to x place with ABC on Date by
>>> flight
>>> or train". Don't ask them just matter of fact tell them. Don't ask for
>>> money. This trip you have to do with your saved finances.
>>> It is best to give them full details when you tell them. Make a small
>>> itenary - Date of travel,how, from where to where.
>>> Where are you staying and the phone no of the place with address. This
>>> may
>>> sound silly in the days of mobile when they can reach you directly.
>>> However
>>> it helps them calm down because there will be many times you will not
>>> pick
>>> up your mobile.
>>> I had a loving father but a very concerned one. So I dealt with him
>>> properly. I gave him the full information and had answers for everything
>>> he
>>> may have asked me. My dad was a lawyer and you know and I knew how many
>>> questions I had to answer. However I went for everything I wanted
>>> to-including holidays with friends. It helps if your folks know your
>>> friends. I always invited my friends home so there was a feeling of
>>> trust.
>>> Also I must tell you that until my Dad was alive I got a call every
>>> night
>>> even when I went to Delhi for one night. He did not care what I was
>>> doing
>>> so
>>> I could have been in my hotel room or at a bar. He just wanted to hear
>>> my
>>> voice at 10pm before he fell asleep. I used to get irritated because I
>>> would
>>> think what if something happened to me at 11pm and he could not take
>>> care
>>> of
>>> me. Once I was in Connought Place with 2 friends  both sighted. Both my
>>> age.
>>> Arun was married and in fact a grandfather. He too got a call from his
>>> father while we were having dinner. Ayesha is a Senior Journalist and
>>> lives
>>> in Delhi. She too got a call from her mother. So calm down parents will
>>> be
>>> parents.
>>> Don't do something stupid because then they will hold it over your head
>>> forever.
>>> A lot of people on this group drink extensively. Its not really a nice
>>> scene
>>> when you have a drunk blind person who needs help. Word does reach
>>> parents.
>>>
>>> The last thing I would suggest is try to be as independent as possible.
>>> Handle your packing personally and don't ask for help when you are
>>> dealing
>>> with your personal things.
>>> Assert yourself but do it maturely.
>>> Kanchan
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Rahul Bajaj via Ai
>>> Sent: 05 August 2017 16:34
>>> To: Share, empower &Enrich
>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj
>>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a
>>> regressive
>>> view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>>
>>> Thanks again.
>>> Geetha, I agree with you that absolute independence is undesirable, but
>>> what
>>> we are talking here  about is reasonable independence. When offered the
>>> possibility of travelling with a friend, the parent says that friends
>>> are
>>> likely to abandon you in case any problem arises. Only family members or
>>> servants can be trusted.
>>> When asked to seek advice and support from orgs like Enable India, the
>>> parent says that those support systems exist for those who cannot afford
>>> personal servants. They are of no use to someone who can afford personal
>>> helpers.
>>>
>>> The approach outlined by Shireen, though difficult, then remains the
>>> only
>>> solution. Shireen, if one wants to travel alone/with a friend, and one
>>> is
>>> living with one parent who will inform the unreasonable parent about
>>> everything, how can one adopt the strategy of executing and then
>>> informing?
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Rahul
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Aug 5, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Shireen Irani via Ai
>>> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hi Rahul,
>>>>
>>>> most of what i wish to say has been said already, but I'd like to
>>>> reiterate a couple of things that i think are imperative, regardless
>>>> of the temporary discomfort they may cause in the relationship.
>>>>
>>>> as an adult, whether disabled or not, 1 needs to put one's foot down,
>>>> and have the free will to decide one's own actions with total
>>>> responsibility for them. parents often find that difficult to accept,
>>>> partly for control, and partly because of their fear of being  of no
>>>> need to the child any more. so if there's no room for a calm
>>>> conversation, one can make one's decisions and break it to them
>>>> immediately before, or after you start executing it. even the language
>>>> you use needs to be assertive and firm,  reassuring them that you do
>>>> love and respect them, but  these are a few things that you will not
>>>> allow them to control, because  they are now yours to take charge of.
>>>> this is also when you  ask them: what they think you will do, once
>>>> they're not around any more to protect you from the big bad world. we
>>>> know of countless stories of parents who threaten to harm themselves
>>>> in cases of their children marrying against the parents wishes, but
>>>> after a few months it all defuses and the family is 1 again. so
>>>> particularly with emotional blackmail, I know it sounds unpleasant,
>>>> but it is best to assert, that you will not be deterred by any  such
>>>> threats.
>>>> the way to balance things out could be to show them that you'd love
>>>> their intervention in certain areas, but not in a few others.
>>>>
>>>> also, it really does help even if in tiny ways, for them to see other
>>>> blind people moving around more independently. so wherever possible,
>>>> do invite a friend over, introduce them to your parents, and then
>>>> perhaps spontaneously decide to venture out on your own, the 2 of you,
>>>> without opportunity for any further discussion on the matter.
>>>> finally, I think financial independence, and your ability to manage
>>>> your own finances without their help, and also contributing towards
>>>> the running of the house, usually goes a long way as a sign of your
>>>> independent adulthood. if you can politely deny any1 else's help/
>>>> control in financial matters, and then prove your efficiency with wise
>>>> money management, then it becomes    relatively easier to assert your
>>>> independence  in other areas.
>>>> of course your own confidence and ability is paramount before you take
>>>> such steps.
>>>>
>>>> what I'd emphasise the most in all this is, do not give in to
>>>> emotional blackmail!! just do not.
>>>> prepare yourself for some temporary strain, and look forward to a
>>>> healthier and more meaningful future with your family.
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>>
>>>> Shireen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 8/5/17, Rahul Bajaj via Ai <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks, Alok. I agree that the anxiety and fear of the parent here is
>>>>> divorced from the actual capabilities of the disabled person.
>>>>> Such blind resistance to accepting the proposition that  the blind
>>>>> person has to be given space to grow and make their own mistakes is
>>>>> what creates an impasse.
>>>>> If a blind adult is told that they will always need an escort, but
>>>>> the only difference will be that the escort will be their wife
>>>>> instead of their mother in future, that reflects the parent's
>>>>> absolute failure to understand the other person's perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the suggestions that you have offered are very helpful.
>>>>> However, they nonetheless presuppose that the parent is willing to
>>>>> engage in a calm conversation with a semi open mind. The fundamental
>>>>> problem here is that that also is not true most of the time.
>>>>> The disabled person is told that the parent will start stepping back
>>>>> when the disabled person acquires the requisite independence. When
>>>>> asked to outline the criteria based on which the parent will be able
>>>>> to say that the child has reached that level, the parent becomes
>>>>> confrontational and states that the disabled person has not seen the
>>>>> darker side of the world yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Rahul
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/08/2017, Alok Kaushik <alok.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Rahul,
>>>>>> What you have mentioned suggests that the  fundamental issue is  not
>>>>>> about the capabilities of the visually impaired person and parent's
>>>>>> comfort level with it but a limitation that the parent himself /
>>>>>> herself  is facing in terms  of handling the situation if  something
>>>>>> goes wrong. He / she has  a fixed  idea that he / she is responsible
>>>>>> for  the  VI person, and  hence has  to take decisions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a  more  difficult scenario to deal  with because it is not
>>>>>> about VI person's but  their notions of  their own limitations and
>>>>>> responsibilities.
>>>>>> In such a case while  demonstrating your capabilities is  important,
>>>>>> it is equally important to relieve them of  the burden of  that
>>>>>> sense of responsibility and limitation. This would  especially be
>>>>>> relevant in case of single parents, and  also  in  scenarios  in
>>>>>> which parents consider themselves to be socially answerable if
>>>>>> anything
>>> goes wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be important to make  them  understand that their  support
>>>>>> would not  be everlasting, and  their help  is needed to make
>>>>>> oneself independent, if they really want him / her to live well.
>>>>>> They can  better help adapt, practice, and achieve  a  high level of
>>>>>> comfort while they can still support . One saying  that I often use
>>>>>> to  quote is "You give your  son a  fish, he eats today. You teach
>>>>>> him how to fish, he eats every day.".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I  have also seen some parents say that you can do whatever you want
>>>>>> after us but not  while we are still around. This again reflects
>>>>>> that the focus of their thinking is not really the limitations of
>>>>>> the visually impaired person but their own limitations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One may have to  make  the parents realize they have a  support
>>>>>> system to handle any situation. And  also,  it needs to come out in
>>>>>> one's communication that he / she is now prepared to take on the
>>>>>> responsibilities of his / her actions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I  would like  to reiterate that patience is  still the  key. If
>>>>>> one really intends to  be  independent, it would eventually happen.
>>>>>> In  fact at some point being independent would  be a requirement
>>>>>> whether one wants to or not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> Alok
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Rahul Bajaj [mailto:rahul.bajaj10...@gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 9:16 PM
>>>>>> To: Share, empower &Enrich
>>>>>> Cc: Alok Kaushik
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a
>>>>>> regressive view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you, everyone. Your responses are very insightful and
>>> informative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alok, I agree with you that one has to strive to avoid either of
>>>>>> those extremes. However, all these suggestions operate on the
>>>>>> premise that the parent in question is reasonable and willing to
>>>>>> change their views based on changing circumstances. I am afraid that
>>>>>> is not always the case. Some parents cannot be reasoned with and
>>>>>> offer you a choice between not doing something and doing it as per
>>>>>> their own unreasonable terms. What choice is one left with in such
>>>>>> cases?
>>>>>> Further, while the incremental approach works best, that cannot
>>>>>> address a parent's unfounded fear that something horrible will
>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>> Finally, if a parent is blackmailing a child into not doing
>>>>>> something or doing it in a very different way from what the child
>>>>>> wants without even articulating genuine safety concerns that make
>>>>>> them wary, what should one do?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Rahul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 4, 2017, at 2:36 PM, Alok Kaushik via Ai
>>>>>>> <ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Rahul,
>>>>>>> You have  brought  up a very relevant subject. Although I always
>>>>>>> had a very understanding family, I  also had  to experience  a
>>>>>>> phase  in which the family members had to  be  brought  to a
>>>>>>> certain comfort level. I never faced any restrictions but
>>>>>>> additional comfort level had to be developed, and I can easily
>>>>>>> observe the change in level of  comfort and confidence they now
>>>>>>> have.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides that I have also seen several cases around me, in which
>>>>>>> similar issues as  mentioned  by you were present. Here are my
>>>>>>> observations and thoughts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I do not think that  any organization or friend will  be able to
>>>>>>> make a decisive impact on the  thinking of  parents / family
>>>>>>> members just by telling them about some of the other people who
>>>>>>> have been able to do much more. It largely depends on how much
>>>>>>> drive the visually impaired person himself / herself has to  become
>>>>>>> independent, and how effectively that is expressed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One  of  the main reasons of the parents is the safety concern. One
>>>>>>> still needs to take a decision to go ahead and do things but
>>>>>>> taking some measures could help understand the parents that he /
>>>>>>> she is not reckless about the safety. For example, one can  share
>>>>>>> the taxi number while travelling outside at home, it communicates
>>>>>>> the same message, while being an actual safety measure. Letting the
>>>>>>> family members know when to expect you back home realistically
>>>>>>> would provide them extra comfort. These actions are simply related
>>>>>>> to information sharing and do  not necessarily restricts oneself.
>>>>>>> This goes a long way in  developing a comfort level without
>>>>>>> creating any friction in the relationship.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Besides moving outdoors,  if  there are other things that one is
>>>>>>> looking to do but is facing restrictive approach, comfort level can
>>>>>>> best be created by generating opportunities to demonstrate that one
>>>>>>> would  be happy doing such a task  and  can do it. Communicating
>>>>>>> that he / she would definitely ask for  help if  needed is  also
>>>>>>> very effective. There  is no better conviction then actually seeing
>>>>>>> a person doing something.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A few  things that we need  to keep in mind is that we ourselves
>>>>>>> need to be patient while persisting with the  effort to demonstrate
>>>>>>> and develop and  confidence  in others. It will  take  some time
>>>>>>> and  repeated observations by others before their  scepticism could
>>>>>>> change to conviction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is possible that one may have to be more  assertive at times,
>>>>>>> but it would be good to balance it out rather quickly to avoid any
>>>>>>> negative effect on the relationship. Underlying feeling behind the
>>>>>>> assertiveness needs to be that of confidence and not disregard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course  there would  be two extremes, one in which a person
>>>>>>> chooses to enjoy the convenience that a protective environment
>>>>>>> offers,  which comes back  and bites hard  once that supportive
>>>>>>> environment collapses or dents, or in other  in which a person
>>>>>>> becomes a rebel, gains the independence and the relationships
>>>>>>> languishes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My thoughts are to bring about a change while sustaining good
>>>>>>> relationships.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>> Alok
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Ai [mailto:ai-boun...@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Rahul Bajaj via Ai
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 04, 2017 1:12 PM
>>>>>>> To: ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in
>>>>>>> Cc: Rahul Bajaj
>>>>>>> Subject: [Ai] Question about dealing with parents having a
>>>>>>> regressive view about the capabilities of the disabled
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope this message finds you well.
>>>>>>> At the outset, let me clarify that this question may or may not
>>>>>>> have anything to do with my own personal experiences, so I'd
>>>>>>> appreciate it if the aim of the conversation could be to understand
>>>>>>> this phenomenon in general terms as opposed to focusing too much on
>>>>>>> my
>>> own situation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While a lot of us focus on the importance of sensitizing various
>>>>>>> stakeholders, such as employers, academic institutions and others
>>>>>>> about the capabilities of the disabled, few focus on the
>>>>>>> discrimination that the disabled face in their own homes due to the
>>>>>>> view that their own family has about their capabilities or
>>>>>>> potential.
>>>>>>> More specifically, if one has a parent who is unwilling to learn
>>>>>>> from the experiences of other blind people and give their disabled
>>>>>>> child the freedom that we all deserve, to what extent should one
>>>>>>> follow what such a parent says?
>>>>>>> Further, while safety is doubtless important, if the disabled
>>>>>>> person has the requisite maturity to ascertain if they will be safe
>>>>>>> in a given environment, should they act as per their own assessment
>>>>>>> or follow what their parent is saying, in the fear of alienating
>>>>>>> them?
>>>>>>> I think there are many emotional forces at play in a family setting
>>>>>>> that may not be involved in other settings. For instance, one often
>>>>>>> hears of parents emotionally blackmailing their children into
>>>>>>> acting the way they want without recognizing that this may not be
>>>>>>> in the child's best interest.
>>>>>>> Finally, what makes the situation worse is the fact that the
>>>>>>> external world [friends and wellwishers] is also often apprehensive
>>>>>>> to interfere in these matters on behalf of the disabled person on
>>>>>>> the ground that this is an internal family matter, so that makes it
>>>>>>> significantly harder for the disabled person to fully assert
>>>>>>> himself/herself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If any of you have dealt with the above, I'd be curious to know
>>>>>>> what you think about these issues.
>>>>>>> I am mindful of the fact that not many people would be open to
>>>>>>> discussing this on a public forum, so please feel free to mail me
>>>>>>> off-list about this. Further, not many may see this as a problem,
>>>>>>> given how  accustomed they are to succumbing to their parents'
>>>>>>> wishes, no matter how uninformed and inappropriate those wishes may
>>> be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Rahul
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>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
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>> sent through this mailing list..
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Avinash Shahi
> Doctoral student at Centre for Law and Governance JNU
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
>
> To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, reach:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/maillist.html
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Vivek Doddamani Ph-9868954833 & 08860410944  skype: vivek.doddamani,
FB: vivek doddamani.  105, Lancer Road, Near Mall Road, Delhi-110054.
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..



To check if the post reached the list or to search for old posting, reach:
https://www.mail-archive.com/ai@accessindia.inclusivehabitat.in/maillist.html
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