All you say is true. In today's economy, it's very difficult for an
independent car company (IE one that is not part of a larger
conglomerate) to succeed. Almost all European marques are part of a
larger whole. If they don't belong to Fiat (Lancia, Fiat, Alfa Romeo,
Abarth, Ferrari, Maserati) Then they are part of Volkswagen (VW,
Bugatti, Audi. Porsche, Bentley, Lamborghini, Seat, Skoda) or BMW
(BMW, Mini, Rolls Royce). But this begs the question, where do
corporate values stop and marque individuality start. Certainly,
Bugatti is owned by VW and it's engine is even based (loosely) on the
VW/Audi V-8. But the car doesn't look like a VW, it's not an Audi or a
Porsche with a Bugatti badge on it. Neither is a Lamborghini an Audi
(but, it could be argued that an Audi R-8 IS a Lamborghini). When it
comes to the Spanish SEAT and the Czech Skoda, they are VW Golfs, pure
and simple in different body shells. That's the way mass car
manufacturing must be today. Fiats, Alfas, and Lancias are going to be
the same cars with different cosmetic treatments. But the Lancia and
the Alfa Romeo cannot be said to be Lancias or Alfas PER SE, any more.
They are simply Fiats with their badges changed and frankly, there is
no way to romanticize or become passionate about THAT!. Good cars they
might well be, but an old saying is that a difference that makes no
difference is no difference at all.
BTW, by SZ Zagato, do you mean the SZ30 of the early '90's? "Il
Mostro"? If so, it's a Fiat built Alfa and it was NOT designed as a
race car like the earlier SZ and TZ and TZ-2. It was a limited
production passenger car in the same mold as the earlier Montreal and
the later 8C. They also built a drop-head version called the RZ30. The
car handled beautifully, I had the pleasure of driving an RZ belonging
to the then President of the Umbrian Alfa Romeo Owners Club (a huge
organization with hundreds of cars attending the fall meet that I
attended) In Italy in the early 2000's. I would like to have one, but
they are quite pricey these days (they're over 15 years old now, so an
American COULD, legally, go to Europe and purchase one and bring it
back.). We're talking $30-50K for a nice one and the drop-head is even
more expensive.
George Graves
'86 GTV-6 3.0 'S'
On Jan 12, 2012, at 8:08 AM, John Palumbo wrote:
A large part of what is said here is true. But to put in context the
almighty question, 'Why?' Let me share some thoughts I have on the
matter.
One day strolling on the outskirts of Bologna, Italy, on my
cherished Malaguti motorino, I stumbled into a used car dealership
where they had on display in the show room a wonderful, bright red,
SZ Zagato. Fascinated with this car, I commented to the salesman in
Italian 'Che bella macchina!' What a beautiful car! I then asked
somewhat facetiously, 'Is it fast?' The salesman, with a look of
disbelief said in Italian 'Certo e veloce, e una macchina di
competizione!' Now this can be translated in several different ways.
But for me it was a laugh to get this guys response. So basically he
is saying 'Of course its fast, its a racing car!' But it can also be
taken as saying 'Of course its fast, its a competitive car! A
competitive car? Hmm. You can say 'A racing car' in a different way
in Italian, but he chose this way. So I pondered to myself this
concept. What was Alfa trying to attempt by building this car, and
what did this guy mean?
I was very familiar with the drive train of this car because it was
very similar to the much loved GTV6 engine and drive train of the
glorious '80's with numerous European Touring car championships. But
the SZ when campaigned by Alfa, couldn't compete with the new Mazda
RX 7's, and were soundly beat on the track. And so it was commented
in the motoring press at the time that this particular drive train
was obsolete, even when they tried to boost the horsepower with CC's
and turbo charging. And I know the salesman knew this. So what did
he mean?
In my own personal opinion, I truly feel that Alfas and Fiats have
been misunderstood. I think to call them badge-engineered Fiats is a
little unfair. I mean, Italy, like any other country, albeit the
size of Arizona, wants to compete in a world market, but with the
world economy as it is, especially in Europe, it is becoming
evermore difficult to the point of impossible. Just recently on
Italian television on a morning talk show, they commented that the
sentiment of being 'Made in Italy' is no linger true. Many products
are being outsourced, just recently closing a Malaguti plant in
Emiglia-Romagna, sending thousands of hard working people to 'Cassa
Integrazione', mandatory retirement. They decided to outsource them
to Thailand. In Termini Imerese, a town outside of Palermo, Sicily,
they have closed a Fiat manufacturing facility, doing much the same
as Malaguti, but outsourcing the products produced there to China.
And the Fiat 500's as we know are being built in Toluca, Mexico, the
home of Joaquin Guzman 'El Chapo' Mexico's most notorious drug lord
that has just recently made the Forbes 500 list as being one of the
richest men in the world, worth about '1' billion dollars.
But for Italy to survive and compete with the rest of the world,
they decided to do this. Is it right? Well, as a consumer I always
enjoyed buying things because: it was 'Made in Italy', but of course
you always paid a little more, but being 'Made in Italy' to me was
always neat. Today one can't say this. Everyone in the world is
entitled to make a buck, this is what founded America, and what made
America great, even during the worst of times, and Italy knows this,
and very well mind you. Many people of the world know American
history better that American people do, don't ever forget it. But
Fiat had a great opportunity with the Fiat 500 to put many hard
working Italian people to work and they chose not to. All because
they want to compete in a world market.
But is it fast? Yes, of course its fast!
Where have you gone Lapo, your nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 06:39:32 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [alfa] yech! .. George G. hit the nail on the head!
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]
>
> I wholeheartedly agree with George G. and his missive on corporate
DNA. You lose a generation of workers, and the DNA is dead.
>
> His cited some excellent examples (Fisher et al) to support the
belief that the Alfa Romeos we drive are the last of an incredible
run by a fantastic group of Italians that kept the company running
through two world wars. I believe a lot of the problems we face in
the world today are due to the selfish "me generation" and an
unwillingness to work together for a common goal. Badge engineering
is the brain child of weak people in positions of power out for
their own gain. I think there is even someone running for President
who's daddy ruined Studebaker (remember the Avanti!) yet loves to
crow about his business acumen and family legacy.
>
>
> If the world is ever going to produce Fishers, Alfa Romeo's, and
other similar products, the silent majority must exert themselves
and put an end to the selfish me first madness. Thanks George for
being so eloquent on behalf of innovative companies and their place
in human history.
>
> Pete
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