On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Faldegast <[email protected]> wrote: >> Guess what: He migrated back to Windows as he noticed a whole bunch of >> workarounds he needed to do. > What about virtualbox + Windows + IE?
Yes, he could have done that - and tried it. But just think about any hyperlink (be it a TIF, PDF etc then all opening in the virtualbox where he then needs to have an application for everything there that it can be opened. Basically he then needs to keep two systems up-to-date). And that was just one of the annoyances - the IE-only app. >> Not to tell about some TeamViewer glitches on Linux (extremely >> annoying when TeamViewer is one of the only remote-support tools that >> work on Linux and you either pay for it when using it for the daily >> job). > There are also rdesktop for RDP. But yes we would need a lot more tools. RDP is definitely no alternative to TeamViewer! - For RDP you need an already established VPN connection (as neither the dummy Windows-Admin is exposing RDP port directly to the internet). Only a few customers give VPN to you so that you can connect whenever you want. > That's why I install RHEL/CentOS on novice users. Its far from fancy, but > noone can blame EL for being unstable. But those are a huge step back usually because they come with medieval versions of several software (e.g. LibreOffice), isn't it? >> So - by now - status for me is: >> a) I finally (after a lot of extra analyses, bug reporting, testing >> etc) got - again - a very stable system with Ubuntu 12.04 + kernel >> 3.5.0-18. And this although I use a Canonical-certified machine! >> Unfortunately with some manual udpates that now mean I don't get newer >> versions automatically through normal update channel. - However, at >> least I am ok. > That's bad. Certified hardware should be supported, or the certification > becomes useless. To be honest: I was deciding for the new laptop a few weeks after 12.04 release and my laptop was certified for 11.10 - and I am running 12.04 on it now. But it was the first certified hardware and I couldn't think of experiencing more problems than ever before. > That's why I stick to EL when I can. It has been rock solid for man years and > do not disappoint me. > Of course with three different mayor versions (4, 5 and 6) supported in > parallel they can make sure > that the two first are rock solid while keeping the latest a bit edgy. > However I am sure that when they release EL 7 this will also apply to EL 6. Apart from the enterprise versions comming around the corner with old versions usually (I know also from Debian) I was switching from Fedora to Ubuntu because Fedora is lacking hardware support. Interestingly (although all distributions somehow use the common Linux kernel) Ubuntu for me always showed the best hardware support. > Ubuntu is a lot sexier, but on enterprise servers i prefer stable and > reliable. It's not just about "sexier". Although I initially did not like Unity, know I got more effective and don't want to miss it anymore. IMHO times of classic task bars are over and I didn't manage to get Cairo dock or AWN to the stability and comfort of Unity - even after many hours of playing around with the settings. > This is the mayor issue today. The popularity of Firefox and Chrome did > a lot for Linux in defeating IE. Yes, indeed - I agree. Without breaking the monopoly of IE situation for Linux-users would be far worse! > Java may be further ahead because OpenJFX and possible OpenGL > support in the Java standard. However the development process are not > very transparent. Fortunately I see a few business applications are using Java even for there desktop client (on server side a lot is Java, but on the desktop many stick to Windows-only .net clients). Java is IMHO ahead even for GUI development - just try to get a .net GUI to adapt it's widget sizes to different languages for example, which in Java is no problem since years, I couldn't get this feature working on .net neither using Winforms nor using WPF. Microsoft is causing a lot of migration work to developers and I got more and more angry upon Microsoft. After many years of Windows-only-Development, when switching to Java (and I only switched my focus to Java a few years ago) I started to enjoy programming again. > Also office documents continue to be a problem. Documents from open > /libre-office do not work well with Microsoft Office and vice versa. > This is the far worst problem. One solution would be to have a > OpenOffice-comatible import filter for Microsoft Office. However we also > be able to open Office documents properly. This is the wrong way IMHO. OO and LO work fine on Windows. People on Windows even should use that. :-) > One of my brightest ideas here are to make a linux emulation layer for > Windows. Similar to what Wine is to Linux. This could be helpful, but again an addional huge extra piece that will suffer from the same incompatibilities as Wine does. My experience with wine is that a) only a very few stuff is really working on wine and b) you are exposed to Windows viruses. On the Linux side there are already such layers available like cygwin or xming. Tried both and did not get convinced. > Then we could RPM/DEB our > applications to a windows system and have some of the Linux experience > which will smoothen the migration. I know that many Windows users would > use it just because of the package management. If you bring such Linux features to Windows there would be even less pressure for people to migrate to Linux. Package management is one of the benefits one gets when switching to Linux. Personally I would say: Windows users should drown in their own DLL hell! > Who don't remember the > pain of getting openoffice + pidgin + firefox and other FOSS > applications AND manually keep them all updated? LibreOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird all have their own update-feature and already automatically update on Windows. On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 9:34 AM, Tom <[email protected]> wrote: > The problem with the MS Office formats us that they are not consistent > across different versions of MS Office itself. [...] Of course, the Microsoft formats are not the choice when you want a format that can be read in a reliable way even 15 years from now. Basically when archiving documents pretty everybody converts those documents to PDF. Of course they could also use the open office formats and sign them to be safe against content change. OO/LO would support that out-of-the-box. > So, when it's an MS program that fails to read an older version of the > current MS format then > it's the author that gets blamed. > When it's a non-MS program then it's IT Support or the program that gets > blamed. You are right - but you now gave me another argument that would help me after the day when I will decide to pay back Windows users with the same ignorance I get from them. > The newest version of MS Office (called 365 this time) claims to have > proper support for OpenDocument Format 1.2. MSO 2010 and 2007 only > supported ODF 1.0 which was quite a long way behind what all the other > Office Suites were using at the time. So MS were able to claim they > supported ODF and try to blame all the other Suites for any problems. One thing is opening and reading those formats. The other thing is saving it back in the same manner that OO/LO does not get the shit that MS is putting into the documents then. Just think of destroying styles. I really tried my best in designing templates that are compatible and can be used without major flaws in both office suites. I failed! It is impossible (even when assuming everybody is using MS Office 2010)! So the only way to get painless document sharing across OS is to get Windows-users to use OO/LO - fullstop. > Why aren't they worried about what is going to happen to their old documents. > They seem to just accept and be happy with the fact that any documents they > might need to access in a few years time, > say around 5years, needs to be printed out because it wont be readable > otherwise. > How is it that people are ok with that?? Some ignore the problem but serious companies convert their documents to PDF (or in the past often to TIF) which of course is not for editing then. Where editable versions are archived most indeed just use the original .doc, .docx etc formats and just close their eyes and hope (I know it as I am working in DMS and ECM field since years). On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:27 PM, Graham <[email protected]> wrote: > The problem is how to fix this bug without falling into that same devils trap. Not sure if I understand what you mean with "that same devils trap"? Which trap? Of incompatible formats? Or are you speaking of the main idea of bug 1 in having choice of OS when buying a PC? > I'm sure Bill Gates with his "Our mission was to put a computer in every > home and we've succeeded" stance feels very exonerated but this is one > "good intention" road which quite definitely did lead to hell. No, greed and the monopoly lead to hell, not the idea to put a computer in every home (apart from the fact that we are fare away from computer at every home - when you really look at world population and computer owners). Of course, when I say that everybody should use open office or libre office instead could lead from one monopoly to another - but there is a difference: Look at what happened with Open Office when Oracle tried to close it. OO got forked in an instant and now basically everybody switched to LO and Oracle lost a lot of trust. So investing into OO (or now LO) was and is always better than investing into Microsoft Office if you look at investment risk / protection. Best regards, Martin. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu 4 dz, which is subscribed to the bug report. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1 Title: Microsoft has a majority market share Status in Club Distro: Confirmed Status in Computer Science Ubuntu: Confirmed Status in LibreOffice Productivity Suite: New Status in dylan.NET.Reflection: Invalid Status in dylan.NET: Invalid Status in EasyPeasy Overview: Invalid Status in Ichthux - Linux for Christians: Invalid Status in JAK LINUX: Invalid Status in LibreOffice: In Progress Status in The Linux Kernel: New Status in The Linux Mint Distribution: In Progress Status in The Linux OS Project: In Progress Status in The Metacity Window Manager: In Progress Status in The OpenOffice.org Suite: In Progress Status in Tabuntu: Invalid Status in A simple player to online TV streaming: Invalid Status in Tv-Player: Invalid Status in Ubuntu Malaysia LoCo Team Meta Project: In Progress Status in Ubuntu: In Progress Status in Arch Linux: Confirmed Status in Baltix GNU/Linux: Invalid Status in “linux” package in Debian: In Progress Status in Fluxbuntu: The Lightweight, Productive, Agile OS: Confirmed Status in openSUSE: In Progress Status in Tilix Linux: New Bug description: Microsoft has a majority market share in the new desktop PC marketplace. This is a bug which Ubuntu and other projects are meant to fix. As the philosophy of the Ubuntu Project states, "Our work is driven by a belief that software should be free and accessible to all." "Ubuntu software is free. Always was, always will be. Free software gives everyone the freedom to use it however they want and share with whoever they like. This freedom has huge benefits. At one end of the spectrum it enables the Ubuntu community to grow and share its collective experience and expertise to continually improve all things Ubuntu. At the other, we are able to give access to essential software for those who couldn’t otherwise afford it – an advantage that’s keenly felt by individuals and organisations all over the world." * http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/our-philosophy Non-free software leaves users at the mercy of the software owner and concentrates control over the technology which powers our society into the hands of a few. Additionally, proprietary software stifles innovation, maintains artificial scarcities, and enables malicious anti-features such as DRM, surveillance, and other monopolistic practices. This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre- installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary. What should happen: A majority of the PCs for sale should include only free software. * http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html * http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines * http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/clubdistro/+bug/1/+subscriptions _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~algeriatul Post to : [email protected] Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~algeriatul More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
