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------- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Jul 20 07:09:10 -0700 2006 ------- How to reply to comments in a linear fashion? Hum. Again, the QP reference is only for reference. It isn't the best but it is better than what either Excel and OOo have at this time. At least in the opinion of 4 different people I work with. BTW, I won't use Excel as a reference for anything good and productive in my experience. If you have not used QP, then it is hard to explain. The menus and UI's are much more intuitive than what either OOo or Excel have to offer. Isn't the idea of using software to make things easy. In regards to automatic creation. This is one of the biggest complaints about MS Office that I hear almost weekly. It won't let the users do what they want as it feels it knows better. I have converted some to OOo just because of this. In research, we need to display information in what some may term "not the normal way of doing things." We need control. This is why many scientists around here will use LaTeX instead of any word processor. Same with external graphing programs because Excel won't allow them to graph the data as needed. Most of my stuff work is line charts. Now to me, if there are links, then it isn't a scatter chart. If there are X-Y values, then to me it requires the editting of the X and Y series. Now the X-values can be numbers or names of what ever, but it is still a series of data. Names are data. The data being plotted are all series and in science, they are not always nice and neat. Even in Bar charts, I may want to change the Base series or the X-axis series to meet the need of the presentation or how I want to represent the data. I may want to have two or three charts based on teh same data set without having to copy or reformat the spread sheet. I may use Column A on one chart with data in B, D, and F but the next chart may use Column C for the X axis and use data from B and F. Same data sets, just minor changes. Most of my supervisors work is line charts. Most of my co-workers work is line charts. As in the example, the X-axis can be almost anything depending on the process and what we are trying to display. As Line Charts are X-Y in most cases, then the ability to edit the X series and select it from wherever it needs to come from is a needed benefit. I spent a year working on some data that required nine graphs of the data for each data set. For three of the charts, it was a simple X-Y line chart. All the data was in nice neat columns X first then Y1 and/or Y2 as needed. The next series of graphs were modified versions of graph 2 and graph 3. I needed to reverse the series in some cases and change the full series. I didn't want to go through all the hassles of having to re-lable everything, put in the formulas, etc. It was just easier to change the order of the series. This wasn't that hard in OOo as the charts were simple. If they were more complicated, then I would have been in trouble. The idea isn't to clone MS but to provide a better product. If you look at 3997, there are allot of people that want an easy ability to edit the series. I want the same thing but with a better UI. The UI in Chart 2.5 is not bad, but I think it could be better. -------- The new chart wizard has one page in its roadmap to select the ranges for series (the same as in the data-source-dialog). If you would like to show the series differently, please explain what you want to have. There is allot of reading in the proposed changes. I have not had time to play with the build that much. I do have other work to do. :) But this is important enough in my books to require the time. I would love to see OOo as a much better product than Office. In my opinion, the chart wizard should be a smart to allow a new user to create a chart of their liking by selecting the series being used and then create a chart to as powerful that the experience user can edit all the various titles (Main Title, Sub Title, X-Axis, X2-axis, Y-Axis, Y2-Axis), legends (for each series), All series, background image, etc. These could be through "Advanced" buttons on the Wizard but need to be accessable. Experienced users can then use the Wizard instead of creating a chart and then having to go and edit it. Give the users control of the whole process if they wish. I don't see why there needs to be two steps or even two different UI's for edtitting the chart properties and the wizard. Both achieve the same result, the users charts. You may not like Tabs, but I find them quite useful in my day to day work. They help keep things organized in a busy day. I like the idea of being able to make one click on a chart and be able to change most if not all of the properties, involved with the chart. I spent some time looking through the issues and found many that have to do with selecting and editting charts. I will have to read more before I can comment on them. All that I have read so far could be resolved with an intelligent UI. I guess you have to have a Supervisor that is on your case for some data for a presentation that needs to be formatted just right and exported and on his computer before he leaves work and the country today. And it is 10 minutes before quitting time. Try to change the formatting of all the lines because the presentation is going to be on a big screen instead of being printed. Or change the text of all the Axis because the audience cannot know what the actual names are but only respective names for security reasons. This seems to happen weekly here. ---- Again, the QP reference is only that, an idea. It is better than what is presently available in either OOo or Excel. Lets be better than all three are at this point in time. In regards to the specifics of Legends and series names. I do agree with you on the associations. The issue is, those names are not always with the particular data. I do like the idea of associating an individual cell with the legend or just typing in the legend I want. If I have a chart that has a legend "Secret Chemical X" but I need to have it say "Some chemical" for a particular reason, then I should be able to do this in the chart UI, not have to edit the spread sheet. Control to the user. I do agree with the changes to sequences and data series. Again, the UI should allow you to change this when you need to. I have a chart that uses one data set and I add another. The UI should allow me to do that without having to create a new chart from scratch. I see this as a great tool for on-going research. Todays data is on Sheet 4, I create a chart. The next day I get more data and I put it on Sheet 5 and I can then open the UI for the chart and add that data to the chart. Extend the X-series or add columns to a bar chart or just add more Y-series to work with the present X-series. User control and not being limited by the program thinking it is smarter than me. ---- This is an interesting discussion. I feel that it can be productive. I really doubt that I will get all I want and need but I would like to see OOo charting to be the best of any spreadsheet program out in the public. The UI for the Wizard and properties is the first step. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please do not reply to this automatically generated notification from Issue Tracker. 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