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------- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Feb 22 09:01:00 -0800 2005 ------- Dear Eike, The Hungarian ICU format is not correct. There is the relevant rule from official Hungarian ortographical rules: ``A keltezÃs 293. Az ÃvszÃmot mindig arab szÃmmal Ãrjuk, s utÃna pontot teszÃnk; a hÃnap neve teljesen kiÃrhatà vagy rÃvidÃthetÅ, illetÅleg jelÃlhetÅ rÃmai szÃmmal is, arab szÃmmal is; a napot mindig arab szÃmmal Ãrjuk, s utÃna pontot teszÃnk. 1983. november 28. 1983. XI. 28. 1983. nov. 28. 1983. 11. 28. TerjedÅben van a pontok nÃlkÃli, kÃtÅjelekkel tagolt forma is: 1983-11-28.'' (Source: http://mek.oszk.hu/01500/01547/index.phtml) The rule speaks about abbrevation of the month AND abbrevation of the day. Like in the official example, we use dots with word separator spaces. This is a problem for us, because in Calc (and Excel) the spaces are not too comfortable (long and hard to type). Fortunatelly, the YYYY-MM-DD format (ISO 8601) is official date format in EU (EN 28601), and ``increasingly spreads'' (from last sentence of rule) in Hungarian. This was the ortographical rule. But what date format is preferred by people? I have made a detailed analysis of the Hungarian webcorpus SzÃszablya. This corpus consists 3,5 million Hungarian web pages. (http://www.szoszablya.hu) The result: Format | page freq | best page freq (subcorpus with 1,7 mill. good quality pages) YYYY.MM.DD. 86883 7356 YYYY.MM.DD- 9206 3115 (suffixed form) YYYY. MM. DD. 4092 1522 YYYY. MM. DD- 9533 6742 (suffixed form) YYYY-MM-DD 34307 4947 YYYY-MM-DD- 1967 199 (suffixed form) YYYY. MMM. DD. 1275 619 (month is Roman number) YYYY. MMM. DD- 1864 937 (month is Roman number) The result: In the _not_ bad texts the preferred date form is the YYYY. MM. DD (see YYYY. MM. DD- line, because Hungarian dates commonly have suffixes in sentences). But the most frequent date format is the bad YYYY.MM.DD. Why? 1. In computer oriented or digital texts is more preferred the monospacing. (Also here, in this Bugzilla form). With monospaced fonts, big spaces seems too large in dates. 2. There are lot of not corrected texts on the web. 3. There are a lot of automated dates in headers of webpages. 4. MS Word, and other office programs is not or bad localized to Hungarian. This has generated a bad habit in spelling. But the right YYYY-MM-DD format is also very frequent (not in sentences). The most important argument, that in typesetting and in any corrected document form, like books, papers, etc. are preferred the official date formats. I (and I think, others :) would like the followings: - preferring the official orthography in word processing. - preferring the official standards (also ortography) in spreadsheets. We have some little problem yet: 1. It seems, the YYYY. MM. DD. is more preferred, like YYYY. M. D. We need this format too. 2. In Calc, now the base form is YY-MM-DD HH:MM, but we need YYYY-MM-DD. How can we modify the base form in Calc? (If I right remember, I have made this, but doesn't work.) 3. When if DateSeparator would be dash, could be type dots in Calc, like now? (For example, out of sheer habit, one types 05.02.22, and this date converted to 2005-02-22 by Calc.) 4. What would be the short form in Calc? I think, 05. 02. 22., 05.02.22 and 05-02-22 are not official date forms. If would be any from these ones, won't be base form, because they are ambiguous and not standard. Best regards, Laci --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please do not reply to this automatically generated notification from Issue Tracker. Please log onto the website and enter your comments. http://qa.openoffice.org/issue_handling/project_issues.html#notification --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
