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http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=45127
Issue #:|45127
Summary:|Even 1.0.1 to 1.9.79 cannot print (DL) envelopes,
|paper format.
Component:|Word processor
Version:|1.0.3
Platform:|PC
URL:|
OS/Version:|Windows XP
Status:|UNCONFIRMED
Status whiteboard:|
Keywords:|
Resolution:|
Issue type:|DEFECT
Priority:|P3
Subcomponent:|formatting
Assigned to:|mru
Reported by:|johnfensome
------- Additional comments from [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Mar 15 15:30:59 -0800
2005 -------
Dear Madam/Sir[s]
Re:-
"OpenOffice BETA 2.0 (version 1.9.79)" which I have recently installed. Due to
the problems I had before I when I had first tried to test it (version 1.1.3,)
by adding and printing an envelope, after writing out a rough A4 document, then
adding an envelope afterwards (at the head of the document.) I began by trying
out this function to see if you have finally fixed things.
I have written to you before on the subject of adding envelopes to documents,
and you still have the same problem/ a ? possible BUG. Surely someone has
tried out these routines with probably the most common printers on the market
(HP LaserJets,) in the UK everywhere I go [banks, building societies etc.] I
still see the old 5Ls and 6Ls like the one I use, being used by others. When I
tried to do a print out, i.e. Envelope first and A4 sheet afterwards, (in the
same print-run) the programme ALSO failed to print the second half of the A4
page [AT ALL!] when pre-printing the envelope first. That is an A4 page it had
already printed out under test (twice!) and it printed out (seperately) after
this without any problem, so there is a serious BUG here! I have attached the
same document for you, so that you can try to reproduce the same effect.
When you try to print an attached envelope (in Word, as a DOC) it hesitates
and waits for you to install the [single] envelope, the user is required to
press a button on the printer to 'force' the envelope to be fed in from the
secondary printer bin, (in MS Word) when you want to add one, even using a
Hewlett Packard 5L/6L series printer. It also auto-selects the correct paper
type (DL220) according to the previous printer/print out (setup) arranged in
options. E.g. The portrait / landscape mode as appropriate, then returns to
printing on standard A4 paper [Portrait,] once the envelope has been ejected.
Once again OpenOfficeÃ2 printed as though it was printing onto an A4 sheet
i.e. Across the page, rather then 'down' the envelope as you would expect it
to, thus the 'from' Name & Address didn't appear on the envelope and the 'To'
address was 90 degrees from where I expected it to be. (e.g. up and down
rather than across the page as it was on the result I got, AGAIN.) When I
removed all the A4 paper, and inserted just a single DL220 envelope, I then
SET the paper type to "DL" and tried to print the envelope, instead of printing
on DL paper, somehow OpenOfficeÃ2, changed the paper selection to 'Letter' and
again the envelope was printed incorrectly, however this time limited WITHIN
the DL220 margins, strange? It was also printed in Portrait mode again instead
of in Landscape mode, as it had been set in the printer settings, that is I
had tried to 'fix' the bug, by by-passing it and selecting the correct paper
type and the correct 'Orientation mode', yet still it failed the test! See
(Scan1.jpg).
When I DID finally get OpenOffice to use the correct paper via, [Set
EXTERNALLY in Windows, Printer setup Orientation, and paper type] then via
OpenOffice "File | Printer settings | Paper Orientation | Paper Type] AGAIN,
and this time NOTHING appeared to have been printed on the paper AT ALL! When
I simply didn't put the envelope in, instead I just tried to get 'some kind
of' printout on A4 paper (simiulating the DL220 envelope instead to see where
things were being placed on the actual paper, (if at they were at all) ALL of
the FROM details were missing and approximately 1/5th of the TO address was
missing completely off the top of the page. Although just this once it
appears to have been printed in 'nearly' the correct position/orientation on
the page, even though it was effectively 'miles-out' from where it shoudl have
been placed on the Page. I managed this, but then it was only by guessing
where things should be placed. When an envelope was again used nothing
appeared on it AT ALL!
I suspect that the paper-feed settings are INCORRECT for DL220 envelopes,
i.e. The paper being fed, is the equivalent of (re-margining) an A4 sheet,
and then the actual data is being fed to the printer. In the attached example
you can clearly see the the addresses, both from and to (having been adjusted
continously from above comments) I finally managed to get the name and address
onto the envelope. See {Scan1.jpg .}
When I did finally manage to get ANYTHING onto the envelope PRINTOUT, (See
attached document {scan2.jpg} however although EVERYTHING IS 'STUFFED' as
far to the RIGHT hand side of the envelope ON SCREEN, but any printout only
appears TIGHT on the LEFT hand side! Certainly not WYSIWYG, and thus is
clearly NOT satisfactory. I suspect that maybe, just maybe, someone has
gotten the margins / paper sizes incorrect. DL220 envelopes (also known as DL)
are 110mm x 220mm, has this someone gotten these two numbers mixed up when
pre-programming the margins / paper sizes? Maybe thats all that is wrong?
I know what you're thinking (he's got his paper in wrong) "No I haven't" if
I install the envelope the other way around to feed it NOTHING appears on
the printout at all!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
===============
IMPORTANT NOTE: BUG! BUG! BUG! BUG! BUG! A VERY SERIOUS PROGRAMMING ERROR!!
===============
I find it VERY disturbing, that after EACH and every print-out (of any page
envelope or A4) the paper type is RESET by OpenOffice ((WITHOUT INSTRUCTIONS
TO DO SO)) back to USA 'Letter'. This even ignores the PRE-FIXED printer
settings via (Windows PRINTERS | SELECT PRINTER | PRINTER | PROPERTIES |
PRINTING PREFERENCES) being set differently, why can't you just read the
settings from the Windows (Default printer type, default printer settings) and
NOT try to force upon us [Europeans] paper types that are UNAVAILBLE and not
required. [e.g. USA 'Letter', Portrait!]
Also, why is it OpenOffice keeps reverting to this 'LETTER' paper setting,
without any instructions or modifications by me the user to do so?
THIS IS A SERIOUS PROGRAMMING ERROR! It might also explain why the envelopes
do not print out correctly (although I suspect that this is a different bug.)
It did not happen with v1.0.3 or v1.1.4, so why has it crept in now, in
v1.9.79 (V2.0Ãeta) ?
This is a VERY serious bug here, it also explains why when I tried two A4
printouts, the first came out correctly and the second did not!!! BUG !!
DO NOT RESET THE PRINTER TO
OpenOffice
'INSTALLED DEFAULTS'!
AFTER ANY PRINTOUT!
It is extremely disturbing to find ONE printer settings (setup A4) under
Windows and a completely DIFFERENT printer (setup LETTER), being arranged
for me without my consent/and/or my modification setup inside of OpenOffice,
no other Windows programme does this, so why does yours?
===========================================================================
THE PURPOSE OF ANY WYSIWYG (& GUI) WORD-PROCESSOR, IS TO REPRODUCE WHAT YOU
SEE ON THE SCREEN OUT ONTO THE PRINTER. THIS IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE HERE!
===========================================================================
In addition, having had to reset the printer paper type and layouts, to DL and
Landscape, I am completely UNABLE to reset the rest of the document back to A4
style and if I was an office worker and this happened, I would immediately
'junk' the new programme because of the frustration in trying to get things
back to how they are supposed to be. (see file testBets2_0.sxw)....
If I reset things via Formatting [Ctrl+Shift+Space] as I used to in versions
1.0.3 & 1.0.4, I lose all the text formatting/fonts etc. This never used to
happen either? Why is it doing so now? (see file testBeta2_0b.sxw)....
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You have got the envelope being added to the front of the document correctly
now, lets see if we can now fix the 'print-out' problems, without complex
instructions requiring a University degree to understand them (as they often
appear on your web site.) I always think If 'Fred Bloggs' can't produce it
then approximately 95-97% of other people won't be able to, purely because
of a lack of time available to be adjusting complex setups, in an office
environment.
The 'best' way of curing this I personally believe (may not be simple, to
implement but it would be very effective) is to have a SECOND paper style
selectable,
e.g. An identical setup, so as to be able to prepare the most commonly used
additional paper (stock,)
i.e. A second printer [Paper setup] stocked only with enveleopes / and
or labels.
Or even better for printers that have seperate paper bin[s] e.g. The old
printer[s] HP 5L/6L could be an example, in these printers the user can insert
an envelope to be printed before the rest of the document in the 'normal' print
mode, i.e. The A4 style pages (which is the most common paper here in Europe.)
I don't know if this is possible for you to implement, and/or if you are
interested in doing it this way, but you would leap WORD/WORD PERFECT, in
doing this as far as I know NO other sofware manufacturer has ever used this
method, it would enable companies to pre-select the 'label/envelope' printer
FIRST and be able to 'merge' the labels/envelopes for a mail-shot and to be
printing them, and the (at the same time) also be printing out the 'body' of
the content of the mail-shot, for the different recipients, thus saving them
both time and money, in speeding up their companys' document production.
So for example, the user could have one 'sub' Laser printer capable of printing
envelopes using one type of paper, and this printer would be called before/or
at the same time as the 'MAIN' printer was called to print the 'body' of the
document, for the same business mail-shot.
E.g. Part a] The 'envelope' would be sent to printer {A} (sub-Laser) and the
'body' of the text (the main part set in A4) ...
...Part b] would be sent to printer {B} (MAIN).
Thus negating the need to try to do 'swapping and chopping' in a single
printer.
In the case of the HP Laserjet 5L/6L series (and many other HP printers), as
the
envelope is stored in a 'seperate' paper-bin, the printer would quite simply be
called twice using two different paper layouts,
{a] one for DL220 the other for b] A4 paper} this is as MS WORD does, but ONLY
for a single document/recipient, thus MS only do it in a 'primitive' way!
i.e. Not for multiple mail-shot as I suggest here above.
Alternately for some printers (capable of holding both paper types) maybe a
'select a paper type for envelope ONLY' then simply switch back during the
print 'run', to the 'normally selected' paper type, i.e. Print first page as
one paper type and the second (and all consequent pages) in Letter/A4... As MS
does, in their primitive mode in MS Word.
The 'standard' answer I get from many people when I try to introduce them
to OpenOffice/StarOffice the SUNÂ products, is quite simply, "It won't print
out envelopes!"
It does but they have to be printed / placed into seperate documents, or
the paper-size has to be reset in between. Trying to explain this to different
busy secretaries who have previously used the primitive function in MS Word,
is extremely frustrating and to them and for their business this ability to
print out envelopes before/with the body of the text, is a vital component!
Their second complaint is the complete lack of support in your product[s]
for Avery products, the largest label manufacturer, in the World. Many many
companies in the UK, because of the problem with envelpe printing, and
the need either for a second printer, (and/or) programme to print envelopes
simply don't bother and they use instead sheets of labels, by Avery. Most
of their products are supported in MS Word, and those that aren't can be
added using a freely supplied macro, thus updating all the newer type of
labels/paper type[s] that they (Avery produce and) support.
Maybe you could help them with this. They have WORD macros, and I have heard
that WORD macros can be converted into OpenOffice ones, maybe you could do
this and pre-configure a macro, placing it either, onto your website or
alternatively include it with the package. If the user doesn't want it then
they will probably never ever look for it, and if they do they'll jump or
scroll into the help file, so advice on how to run {pre-installed macros}
might be very useful (if this advice were to be placed into the help file,)
with the Avery products as the first example... For them to test/try out.
I use standard (as do most Europeans) DL220 envelopes, and A4 paper, but even
in your (Engleish {note this is a deliberate error!} US Spell-checker GB) and
paper settings are all preset in US style 'Letter' paper, which is for some
strange reason very difficult to 'reset & fix in' so as to use A4 paper.
Please, for European releases, please DEFAULT European settings as follows:-
'Language' [of User choices] during installation, {{ auto install these }}
including for their language a spellchecker!
'Paper' [A4 or UK/European Legal A4 which is 1" longer!]
'Envelopes DL220' [standard 220mm envelopes.]
Please implement these settings, your users will love you for it, rather than
ALWAYS having to LOAD and CONFIGURE a new version of your programme, everytime
they install or re-install an updated version which always seems to destroy
all of the users previous settings, maybe a SAVE settings function before you
de-install or re-install could/would be useful... ???
You'll get a lot more downloads and new users that way... Very quickly...
Mostly OpenOffice/StarOffice are used by Linux users/supporters most of these
are used to always changing their settings, most 'Fred Bloggs' [Common Users]
out there would rather just 'kick in the software and after completing the
registration process', go on to then use the programme to produce documents.
I know that Software Engineers and Programmers always love to change things,
instead try to make things as simple as possible for all the "Fred Blogs"
out there. Maybe there will be less 'Blogging' of your products that way.
Eh? Surely SIMPLCITY of USAGE should be your watchword. Make it simple and
easy to use (especially if migrating from either WORD or WORD PERFECT) then
let the user get on with it.
I do like the new layout and it now seems MORE like a standard Word-processing
product thus it will make a lot more people comfortable in using it, now if
you just fix the 'add envelope function[s], and produce labels function[s], I
think a lot of people will move (very fast) away from Word and to OpenOffice
2.0! Please, don't take the MicroSoft Word path and try to add TOO many
unwanted features/additions making their software too-much like BLOAT-WARE,
that no longer functions in either the manner the user expects or wants it to.
If you want to add lots more obscure features, add them behind the scenes and
in menus. WIth clear and CONCISE instructions in the HELP files, NOT in
seperate MAN/FAQ documents that have to be trawled through on the internet in
a VAIN attempt at getting things working fully, or fuctional for the users.
A very important (USEFUL) feature on many Windows (Word/Word Perfect & many
others) is the handy ability to print out the CURRENT page ONLY, e.g. The page
the cursor is currently placed upon, I think you should add this feature as
soon as possible, it is desperately needed.
Bugs.. Too many, I find it very frustrating to not WYSIWYG a file! See Bug
report above, and this took me several hours to test and report back. It never
reset the paper back to A4 as I was trying to do for the [rest of the body of
the text] This is a serious bug, and some means MUST be added for users to be
able to select the MAIN body of the text and reset it [back to their prefered
/ set paper type], if the envelopes have to be produced the way I was forced to
produce them. This is simply NOT good enough. WYSIWYG is the basic function of
any GUI.
I used to manage better word-processing with an old 48kb ZX Spectrum programme
~TLW ....~ (known as ~The Last Word....~ versions 2-4).
Quite honestly this is terribly frustrating, and the only way I can see of
getting out of it, with the examples I have referenced to you above, is either
to be running TWO copies of the same document (at the same time) and
constantly switching back & forth copying and pasting work done, an
unnecessary extra load of work, as in the example above I "LOST!" all my
previous work, when I finally managed to get an envelope poorly configured to
printout!
The only other alternative, is to dump the whole file then cut and paste the
required sections back into a fresh document!
If a busy secretary has to do this, she will be very worried that her boss will
think she has not been doing her job for the last XX number of hours (if he
checks the file audits) and she would be very worried that she'd lose her job,
so she'd have to waste large amounts of harddrive space keeping copies of all
the various stages/states of her document[s] so she could prove that she
has/had
been working all that time.
Obviously this again is not suitable, as how could she remember in 6-12 months
time, which document was the 'final' correct one, if required to reproduce it
for legal reasons???
Not very condusive to people wanting, to use your Word-Processor section of
your programme is it? I do hope that you can and do SORT out these problems
requiring URGENT attention, before you consider producing the Final released
version of OpenOffice 2.0.
However on the display side, it looks like you're slowly getting there at
last... I hope you manage to get the WYSIWYG (envelopes & paper type) problems
sorted out soonest, it is urgent that you address this for your 'for sale
version' StartOffice.
Thanks, for taking the time to read this document.
Cheers
Mr John A. Fensome
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
P.S. It would be useful if you had a link to your web-site and an option
[bug report] PURELY in the Ãeta versions of the HELP programme/routines. You
want us to report, how can we if you don't make it easier? We are not all
FULL-TIME programmers and or software engineers... :-( :::::
P.P.S. While looking for the web-'link' for how to report this/these BUGs, I
opened the help file to Contents | Common help Topics to find one option is
badly created namely "Drag & Drop" whic I assume should instead read
"Drag & Drop", just thought you might like to know. Error in HELP file.
(looking for how to report a bug.)
Unable to send attachments due to your system, scan1.jpg & scan2.jpg &
testBeta2_0.sxw & testBeta2_0b.sxw please email me an address to forward them
to you to show examples of bug from 1.0.1 - 1.9.79... SAME BUG!
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