On Thu, Aug 06, 2020 at 07:12:14PM -0500, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
> > On Thu, Aug 06, 2020 at 10:30:36AM -0500, Pierre-Louis Bossart wrote:
> > > What I was trying to describe in my earlier answer is a different need to
> > > have an atomic update of *multiple* controls.
> > > 
> > > If e.g. a DSP or hardware engine exposes two separate filters for left and
> > > right channels, and the coefficients for those filters are modified with
> > > separate controls, it would be really nice to have the capability of 
> > > writing
> > > these controls separately, but have a 'commit' mechanism so that these
> > > updated coefficients are used at the same time by the left and right
> > > filters.
> > 
> > For the pair of left and right filters, the simplest solution is to unify
> > the two control elements into single one, as you know. The array of
> > two values can be passed to your driver by single system call and
> > ALSA control core surely calls driver code under lock acquisition
> > against any operation for control element.
(After posting the above message, I realized that the above method is
not good in the case since the coefficients data is array type of data.
The aggregation seems not to be well...)

> I am not worried about other applications, the issue is that a transaction
> on a bus or IPC is assumed to have an immediate effect. In the case of
> multiple values, it'd really be desirable to defer the effect of write
> transactions until they are all complete.
> I am not making this up, this sort of capabilities is described in standards
> and I am not aware of any support from the ALSA control framework for a
> global commit operation. We have mechanisms to synchronize triggers on PCM
> devices with the snd_pcm_link(), synchronization of control changes is a
> miss IMHO.

I attempt to arrange several points in your messages:

1. passing vendor-dependent data blob or metadata via ALSA control
   interface without any data abstraction
2. control ioctl request to handle multiple 'struct snd_ctl_elem_value'
   to corresponding control elements at once.
3. introduce traditional 'asynchronous I/O' operation to element write
   operation in system call level.

I'm in conservative place in a point of changes in kernel land. At present,
my answers for the above is:

1. It's impossible for standard ALSA control applications such as
   amixer(1) to handle the vendor-dependent data blob or metadata.
   Therefore the functionality is not necessarily to be implemented with
   ALSA control interface. The functionality is itself unfriendly to
   the existent userspace applications.
2. Any kernel patch is welcome. But I'm happy if you have enough care
   of my proposal of limitation removal for the number of members in
   value array[1].
3. It seems to be problematic for both of ALSA control core and
   userspace applications since any attempt for asynchronous I/O in
   system call level is not necessarily successful in history of Linux
   kernel development (or standardization by Austin). I don't know the

Summary, I recommend you to use ALSA hwdep interface for the
functionality in your device, instead of ALSA control interface.
You can see some drivers have implementation for userspace applications
to execute request and wait for response; e.g. snd-fireworks.

But I note that the summary comes from my conservative place and
there is space for further discussion.



Takashi Sakamoto

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