Promising future for PKR in Sarawak Arfa'eza A Aziz | May
22, 06 6:53pm analysis With its single seat in the Sarawak assembly and its
gain in popular votes, PKR leaders feel the party has a bright future in the
state. More Must work with other groups Not 'a Malaya party'
anymore
Arfa'eza A Aziz - May 22, 06 6:53pm
analysis Having penetrated the Sarawak state assembly through its sole
representative Dominique Ng - who won the Padungan seat last Saturday - Parti
Keadilan Rakyat (PKR) has proven that it has the right formula to win the
hearts of Sarawakians.
The partys victory in the Chinese-majority seat in the state capital and the
increase in popular votes garnered at several Malay seats proved that it is a
force to be reckoned with in Sarawak.
Although it failed to win any of the Malay seats held by Parti Pesaka
Bumiputera (PBB), its popular votes increased tremendously compared to the 2001
state election.
In Saribas and Sadong Jaya, which are PBB's traditional Malay and Melanau
strongholds, PKR garnered almost 50% of the votes cast.
PKR vice-president and election director Mohd Azmin Ali believed that PKR could
have performed better if the election was conducted on an level playing field.
With all the difficulties encountered - BN propaganda, the Election
Commissions failure to conduct a free and fair election, unfair media coverage
by the BN etc, the party still managed to get significant support in several
constituencies, he said when contacted.
Politically more mature
Most locals met expressed their surprise at how fast PKR had shaken off the
party from Malaya label which was often used against it during the 10-day
campaign period.
In fact, many had thought that Ng, who beat BNs Lily Yong by a thumping 1,417
votes, would not stand a chance running under a PKR ticket.
Who would have thought that a candidate from a Malay-majority party would win
in a Chinese-majority seat? It is well-known that the Chinese community is
unhappy with the BN, but many felt that this was not enough to sway their
support to PKR.
Ng was of the view that the oppositions victory in four out of five seats in
Kuching shows that the Chinese community has matured politically.
BNs divide and rule strategies and fear tactics no longer work for the
Chinese, he added.
The message is very clear. The Chinese support can no longer be taken for
granted. If BN continues with its unfair policies, the Malays are going to
follow suit, said Ng.
Azmin said that Ngs victory showed that Sarawakians are ready to accept PKR as
a multi-racial party.
PKRs performance had also put to rest doubts that the thousands who attended
the string of ceramahs (political talks) by party bigwigs including its adviser
Anwar Ibrahim and president Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail, would be translated to
votes.
Blessing in disguise
Many had claimed that the majority who attended the ceramah did so out of
curiosity. Anwar was also portrayed in a bad light by the local media except
for the Chinese press which was quite sympathetic.
An Iban journalist believed that the negative reporting by newspapers linked to
Chief Minister Abdul Taib Mahmud was a blessing in disguise for the party.
I think the BN campaign to smear Anwar had prompted the people who are already
dissatisfied with the BN to seek out the truth.
Unfortunately for the BN and contrary to its claim that Anwars presence had no
effect in Sarawak, the former deputy premier's charismatic personality had
actually swayed the voters.
Ng believed that the Anwar factor had helped boost the peoples support for PKR
when he went to the ground to meet the people.
His personal touch had opened the eyes of the Kuching people. He even walked
with me in the streets of Padungan. It proves that the Chinese do not see him
as the Muslim radical he has been falsely accused of, Ng said.
Indeed, Anwars presence and that of other top party leaders like Wan Azizah,
Azmin and youth chief Mohd Ezam Mohd Nor had indeed been effective, said
political science lecturer Dr Ahmad Nizamuddin Sulaiman from Universiti
Kebangsaan Malaysia.
I think the efforts of these top PKR leaders managed to pull in the votes.
Perhaps the results would be different if they did not make their presence felt
in Sarawak, he said when contacted.
He said another factor for the oppositions successes was the understanding
reached by all political parties. The one-to-one contests in many
constituencies worked in their favour, he added.
Economic grouses
According to Ahmad, Chinese voters in the urban areas voted for the opposition
to express their anger at the recent fuel price hike, the land lease issue and
the little economic opportunities available which have badly affected their
livelihood.
The DAP managed to capitalise on these issues and influence the Chinese
electorate, he said.
As for the Malay community, Ahmad believed that the votes cast for the
opposition candidates came from the youths who are dissatisfied with practices
of nepotism and cronyism by state leaders.
Issues relating to alleged corrupt acts by state leaders were highlighted in
many PKR ceramah. Elderly voters rarely go for the opposition rallies so they
were not exposed to such information. So awareness on the issue had swayed
young voters away from PBB, he said.
He dismissed the idea that the Malay anger would subside once Abdul Taib steps
down as chief minister.
I dont think his retirement would do anything to assuage the dissatisfaction.
Yes, many are unhappy with him but they also know that he is not the only one
practicing nepotism and cronyism. There are also others in his circle.
Look at PBB Wanita chief Sharifah Mordiah Tuanku Fauziah whose seat was
inherited and won by her daughter Syarifah Hasidah Sayeed Aman Ghazali. So its
not just Taib. The others are in the same boat too.
Even when he retires, he will probably be replaced by a candidate of his
choice and so it goes around the same circle. I believe then that this
anti-establishment sentiments against the government will continue," said Ahmad.
Looking ahead
Whats next? What should PKR do to ensure that the peoples support will
continue and grow? It must consider this seriously as it would be facing the
next general election in less than three years.
One of its main tasks will be to preserve the informal ties it had with Snap
and the yet-to-registered MDC under the Barisan Bersatu Sarawak coalition as
well as its understanding with other opposition parties like DAP and PAS.
Ahmad said that it should find ways to form a real and practical coalition of
opposition parties.
Apart from Snap and MDC, PKR must work with DAP and set aside their
differences to form a credible coalition. Also the communication between PKR
top guns and Sarawakians must continue.
If these leaders abandon Sarawak after this, they might not get the same
treatment when they come back for the next election, he added.
Ng said he is confident that the road for the opposition will be clear now that
it has more representatives in the state assembly.
This is a great beginning for the opposition. We have now gained a strong
foothold in Sarawak. Now we have to get down to work.
---------------------------------
Lim: Taib given appropriate b'day present -
May 22, 06 12:06pm
Parliamentary Opposition Leader Lim Kit Siang has lauded Sarawakians for giving
their Chief Minister Abdul Taib Mahmud an appropriate birthday present.
He said voters in the state, especially in the nine constituencies where
opposition candidates were elected, had firmly rejected Taibs third world
demand for a Soviet-style one party legislature.
The message the voters want to convey on Taibs 70th birthday is that he
should change his lifestyle and get a first-class mentality, he added in a
statement.
This is because, he said, the standard response of Barisan Nasional (BN)
leaders to public complaints about the increase in fuel prices is that people
should change their lifestyle.
Taib should be the first to change lifestyle as a role model in Sarawak - and
this change must be immediately visible and tangible to all Sarawakians. Then
all state ministers should follow suit, he added.
Of the nine seats that fell to the opposition in the May 20 state elections,
DAP took six, following a swing of Chinese votes.
Although BN took 62 out of the 71 seats, the results illustrated the
coalitions worst ever performance.
Adverse reflection
Meanwhile, Lim said acquiring a first class mentality is the key thrust of
the Ninth Malaysia Plan (9MP) in order to pave the way for Malaysia to become a
first-world developed nation.
But before we can acquire this first class mentality, we must become a normal
democracy and normal country, he noted.
It is an adverse reflection of how far we are from a normal democracy that the
underlying theme of the BN campaign in Sarawak, was wether the opposition
should be wiped out and Taib be rewarded for his 25-year tenure with a special
birthday present of a clean sweep, he added.
In the first world developed countries which we aspire to join in 14 years
time under Vision 2020, if the leader of the ruling party asks the electorate
to give him a special birthday present with a total knock-out of opposition
candidates, he would be regarded as a pseudo-democrat, a threat to democracy, a
joker if not crazy, he said.
The veteran politician said the Sarawak election result showed that democracy
in Malaysia has started the painful process of growing up.
He also called on Taib, who is the state BN chief, to work with the opposition
candidates elected to the state assembly.
---------------------------------
SUPP chief hears it loud and clear
May 22, 06 1:46pm
The Sarawak United Peoples Party (SUPP) suffered its worst ever defeat in
the May 20 Sarawak elections. It lost eight out of the 19 seats contested.
Party president and Sarawak Deputy Chief Minister George Chan has acknowledged
the message from the voters. He said it was loud and clear.
He admitted that the Barisan Nasional(BN) component party had lost touch with
some of the issues affecting the people and would take the necessary action to
make a stronger comeback.
"We will make concerted efforts to emerge stronger," he was quoted as saying by
Bernama.
SUPP lost in Padungan, Pending, Batu Lintang, Kota Sentosa, Engkilili, Meradong
and Bukit Assek and failed to unseat the DAP in Kidurong.
Chan said the SUPP would also review and strengthen its organisation, including
the grooming of young leaders.
May 20, 2006 would be remembered by the party and its members as one of the
darkest days of its 46-year history, he said.
However, he thanked party members and loyal supporters, saying that they must
remain calm and stay united.
Lesson for BN
Immediately after the election results were announced, Chief Minister Abdul
Taib Mahmud had asked SUPP to carry out a post-mortem on its defeat in the
eight constituencies.
Taib, who is the state BN chairperson, said the post-mortem was important to
find out the causes for the partys poor showing.
It is understood the SUPP will conduct a series of post-mortems before
submitting a report to the top BN leadership.
In a related development, Deputy Information Minister Ahmad Zahid Hamidi said
the defeat in nine seats is a lesson for BN not to take voters.
He said voters were now better informed with the existence of sophisticated
communication facilities.
The popularity of a candidate in the print or electronic media was no longer a
guarantee of victory, he said.
---------------------------------
Last 3 days separate the men from the boys
Terence Netto - May 22, 06 5:35pm
Even as Daniel Tajem covered something like 120 longhouses in the
constituency of Bukit Begunan, all of March and April this year, and returned
for another grueling sortie in nearly the same localities in the immediate
prelude to the May 20 state election in Sarawak, he and his aides knew the last
three days before polling would be crucial to the outcome.
That is the time, based on their experience of several past elections, when the
money bags come out, the village headmen are propositioned, and the outcome of
the poll would hinge on whether the recipients of largess vote with the money
or with the way they had responded to the Dayak oppositionists talks in
meet-the-people sessions.
The ruling Barisan Nasional governments disclosure a few days before the vote
that a sum of RM5.7 million was to be paid out to 4,760 village chiefs in
Sarawak as monthly payments, backdated to March 2006, with the arrears to be
paid at the end of May, was the obvious cue to the headmen that he who pays the
piper gets to call the tune.
A part of the standard routine of a Tajem ceramah at the longhouses where he
campaigned focused on how the villagers should react when propositioned
decline, but if they had to take the offer it did not mean they have to deliver
the vote.
The latter would entail some chicanery that may be beyond the level of
sophistication of the 7,644 voters of Bukit Begunan, 87% of whom are Iban. But
unless his listeners were engaged in an elaborate charade, where their emphatic
applause for his espousal of the Dayak situation with respect to Native
Customary Rights land was so much dissembling, he and his aides had expected
that grease would not determine the outcome of the poll, this time at least.
Trailed badly in most wards
They were chastened to discover that when counting commenced on the evening of
May 20 that the scarcely-to-be-seen-campaigning BN incumbent, Mong Dagang, who
had replaced Tajem as the Parti Bansa Dayak Sarawak (PBDS) candidate for the
seat in the 1996 poll while Tajem elected to become Malaysian High Commissioner
to New Zealand the previous year, was leading in all the wards.
The only places where Tajem appeared to keep pace with the former bank branch
manager were in the wards in Banting, a village only accessible by boat along
the Sungai Seterap boarded at the dilapidated hamlet of Lingga. In all the
wards accessible by tar-sealed roads, Tajem, who polled 2.076 votes to Mong
Dagangs 3,083, trailed badly.
The conclusion was inevitable: where the men with the lucre could dole out the
stuff with stealth and with speed, and had the logistics to monitor the
disbursements and make sure that it served to deliver the vote, the vote went
in contradistinction to the cheering at Tajems longhouse rallies.
In the immediate prelude to the election Mong Dagang was scarcely visible, in
contrast to Tajems ubiquity, though BN posters and vehicles were everywhere.
He must have known that it is the last three days, to paraphrase a common
sports adage, that separate the men from the boys
---------------------------------
Sarawak results a great victory
Sam - May 22, 06 4:33pm
After having to put up with years of rather nauseating and apple-polishing
rhetoric from the Barisan National, the real democratic-minded people of
Malaysia and particularly Sarawak have something marvelous to celebrate.
Against all possible odds the DAP has won six seats in Sarawak and completely
decimated the incumbent government in the Kuching area.
Still the Barisan politicians are talking about 'landslide' and 'new mandate'
but the real truth behind the just concluded state elections in Sarawak is that
the opposition parties, and particularly the DAP, have won the landslide and
not the Barisan.
The DAP has won nearly 10 percent of the seats in the state legislature and
this is in the face of an almost complete government block on their access to
the media, blatant bribing of voters and the unspoken but ever present threat
of retaliation against those constituencies, villages and towns that dare to
vote against the ruling coalition.
If it had truly been a fair and democratic election then there is no doubt that
the Barisan would have been deservedly turfed out of office and maybe many of
its members brought to book for their corrupt practices of past years.
This is a great victory for the democratic aspirations of the people of
Malaysia and hopefully will herald a dramatic shift away from the money
politics and incipient corruption that has plagued Malaysia and Sarawak since
Merdeka.
It must be particularly heartening for Lim Kit Siang and other DAP stalwarts
who for years have championed the rights of the downtrodden and oppressed.
Hopefully they will be motivated to carry on their long and brave fight to
install a real and not pretend democracy in Malaysia.
We now look forward to some real fireworks in the state assembly sittings in
Sarawak and hopefully the decrepit and ageing leader of the Barisan in Sarawak
will fade away quickly to allow younger, more honest and 'crony-less' leaders
to take over soon
---------------------------------
Vox Populi: Sarawak - Writing on the wall
May 22, 06 3:49pm
Readers generally welcome the Sarawak state election results which saw the
opposition making considerable gains at the expense of the ruling Barisan
Nasional coalition. The reason the opposition made big gains, says one
reader, was the complete absence of social justice cutting across racial and
religious lines and the failure to keep promises made. The run-up to the MIC
elections also gets the attention of readers with the focus on the ongoing
tussle between the partys deputy president S Subramaniam and its supremo S
Samy Vellu. It is time for Samy to go, notes one reader.
On BN retains power, opposition shines and When the Chinese decide to humiliate
BN ...
Sufi: Bravo to all in the opposition! This is the sign that the Sarawakians are
waking up from their nightmare.
It is the most courageous and wise move for those who voted for the opposition.
The people in West Malaysia should also give a chance to the opposition in the
next election.
Let the voters be brave enough to vote for a change.
Luk: In the rural areas, the voters can be bought by just a generator to
provide electricity to a longhouse. That's all is needed to win over their
votes.
The voters in the urban areas are more sophisticated and not easily bought.
Thus, the election result shows that the more informed ones are telling Taib
Mahmud that enough is enough, please step down.
Like in most urban areas, most of them are Chinese and this allows BN to
interpret the result as that the Chinese are fed up with Supp. This is not
true.
The true message is that the well-informed Sarawakians are fed up with the
whole of BN. If you throw in other parties such as Snap, BN will meet its
Waterloo in the urban areas as well.
The writing is on the wall. Read it carefully.
Wabu Sibega: I like your title When the Chinese decide to humiliate BN ...
Perhaps the Chinese-based parties in the peninsula should learn something here.
Many issues that caused the collapse of the Supp are common to all non-Muslim
based parties.
It is not that their people did not work hard but that they really did not have
an effective voice in the government being partners in BN. They are more like
beggars hoping to pick up some scraps that fall off the dining table.
If these politicians continue to close one eye to all the crap that is going
around, they will hear from the voters sooner or later.
Idin Votu: My babysitter said she and many from her longhouse were not going to
cast their votes on Saturday. The reason? Supposedly their customary lands
around the longhouse have been taken over by Taib's crony who paid the
tuai-rumah (house chief) some money to sign over the lands while the other
families in the single longhouse did not get any compensation.
Apparently, this is a common practice since it's easier to convince just one
man to sign, and cheaper to pay good money to one man than pay reasonable
compensation to 30 families. But of course that is just hearsay.
But I heard that many did not vote for the Supp because it is seen as
ineffective in representing the people's views in the state legislature, and
the Parliament, over issues including Taib's cronyism, monopoly of state
development funds, native customary land, short land leases (60 years), the oil
price hike, Malaysias proclaimed an Islamic country status, corruption etc,
etc.
KSN: The reason the opposition made big gains was the complete absence of
social justice cutting across racial and religious lines and the failure to
keep the promise made when the NEP was introduced ie eradication of poverty
regardless of race and religion.
BN, do not attempt to put the blame on Supp, not that they are blameless in not
articulating and delivering on the promises to the Chinese community. The BN
state government should take full responsibility.
If you dare call for a general election in Semenanjung, the BN will face a
disastrous result for the same reasons the opposition won big in Sarawak..
Dear PM, if you want to be the leader of all Malaysians, as you have proclaimed
many times since becoming PM, then you have a lot of work to do to convince our
people to vote for the BN the next time. Good luck to you.
Frustrated Peninsular: This is the price you have to pay if you stay too long
in politics. Even the great former PM knew about it but there are still some
hanging on - even after more than 20 years - under the protection of BN
umbrella.
Either you leave gracefully or get embarrassed. Perhaps our PM knows what to do
with them. The citizen who is 25 years old today knows no other leader in MIC,
Gerakan and some in Umno.
Are we saying that this country has no other capable leaders? I'm waiting for
next election to show my frustration.
Vbsmb: Lim Kit Siang should stop asking for a review or a White Paper on the
recently concluded Sarawak state election. It is pointless as his plea would
fall on deaf ears.
It now time for DAP to start working with PKR to galvanise more support and
better service for the people in Peninsular Malaysia.
Concentrate on the MCA, Gerakan and MIC-controlled areas. The Sarawak election
results was a barometer for a need to check and balance.
JT: In my opinion, if the state assembly members are to represent their
peoples voices, I believe the right thing to do is not use physical
administrative boundaries, but base the representation on population and their
ratio to the overall number of seats in the assembly.
For example, if one doctor should serve a hundred patients, the same formula
should be applied to the state assembly members. A densely populated area
should be represented by more state assembly members.
The Election Commission, rightfully, should explain to the public what the
justification was for them to introduce 11 new seats. DPM Najib Razak said on
the night of the election victory, We introduced 11 new seats, and we lost
nine to the opposition and won 62'.
Of course, the existing government is thinking of the long term. But not for
everyones benefit and only for the prosperity of their own children,
grandchildren, their cronies and the like.
Ivan Tugoholidae II: Who paid for Najib's trip to Sarawak to stand beside Taib?
I hope being a DPM in squeaky-clean Pak Lah's cabinet, he knows better than to
spend the people's money on travel campaigning for BN.
Even if he was carrying out some official duties. His travel cost should be
pro-rated so BN can pick up its share of the bills.
Pak Lah has another chance to show us that his cabinet is operating on a new
higher standard of ethics and transparency.
Zeb Johnson: As usual the crooked and corrupted politicians won the election
and until the end of the time, they will live happily along with their
relatives and cronies shopping in Paris, dinners in London, summers in New York
and vacations in Acapulco.
For all this, Malaysians should be thankful to the SPR (Suruhanjaya Penipuan
Rakyat). If only one day, aliens from outer space put these crooked and
corrupted politicians into soup cans.
On Subra: Is Samy's salvo orchestrated? and Samy: I will expose Subra's shares
in Nanban
K Narayanasamy: The MIC deputy president, and for that matter no other MIC
leader, has been allowed to act independently by its present president. The
president's hold on the party is almost absolute that there is no chance for
the growth of any proactive leader with any dissenting views.
The deputy president, despite not being fielded in the general elections, has
been calmly holding onto his position. The president probably expected him to
kick up a row and get himself thrown out of the party!
Close control of the supporters of Subramaniam - including the suspension of
branches perceived to be the supporters of him - has been a clear strategy, and
the latest controversy on the news report is being taken up as another chance
to discredit the present deputy president.
If the deputy president has been found to have been involved in any subversive
activities, the CWC surely has enough powers to deal with it. But as the
president seems to want to build his own empire with only his devoted followers
- in the name of party unity and cohesive leadership - he is waging a war of
attrition to remove other factions that could pose a problem to his followers
once he vacates his position in the future.
Maybe this is his reward to his devoted followers as, on their own, they might
not be able to survive!
K Arumugam: It's ironic. Instead of praising Samy Vellu for his alleged fair
comments about Mahathir's regime, there seems to be an anti-reaction by MIC
members. I praise Samy Vellu for his courage, for being instrumental in
creating the debate with regard to the status of Indians.
The present state of the majority of the Indians of the working class is
pathetic. The increasing social issues are symptomatic of its state of
marginalisation and being out of mainstream development.
The children and youths of the Indian community are in real danger of becoming
victims of neglect to search for their own identity and direction. Samy's
courage to state the truth is nothing new.
Ten years ago on the Aug 5, 1996, The Star reported, I apologise, says Samy
Vellu. In that report, Samy Vellu said that the community relied on empty
promises. As such, for 17 years (then) he could not do much for the community.
Further the report quotes Samy Vellu having said that during British rule the
Indians were treated like dogs and dirt, it is the same now (then), only that
we are not called dogs.
Political Observer: I just can't understand Subramaniam. Why is he still
hanging around in MIC and allowed to be abused by Samy Velu? If there is any
pride left in Subramaniam, he should resign and walk out with his head held up
high.
If politics is still his passion, he can join one of the opposition parties and
contribute to nation- building. His continued presence in MIC is so, so, so
pathetic, and honestly, I don't feel any sympathy for this man at all.
Robert: It is time for Samy to go. He has made plenty, thanks to Mahathir but
other than the select few, not much has reached the grassroots.
Shame on Samy for allowing the Indians of Malaysia to reach such a low station
in life.
Watch Out: I find it hard to accept that two Tamil newspapers have reported the
same news about what Samy Vellu wrongly. Both made the same mistake?
It does not take a statistician to tell us that this is highly improbable.
Today Samy attacks and belittles our Tun Mahathir. Tomorrow when our beloved
Abdullah Ahmad Badawi is no longer the minister, I know who Samy will attack.
Watch our for him, dear prime minister.
On MPF: Sensitive issues breed overreaction
KN: MPF founding director Dr. Sheikh Johari Bux has a point when he mentioned
that "sensitive issues as proposing to amend constitutional provisions on Islam
will most likely lead to emotional overreactions and manipulations by
irresponsible quarters".
Thus, in this respect , it would be marvelous if organisations like MPF could
work together, for example, with the Article 11 coalition in order to create
awareness about Islam in the constitutional aspect so that there is no
emotional overreactions and manipulation by irresponsible quarters including
by politicians, political parties , NGOs, religious zealots and etc.
Let us ponder what Allen White, American writer and newspaper editor
(1868-1944) once said : Peace without justice is tyranny.
On Gomez: NGOs must do more in S'pore
Singaporean Abroad: Gomez has a point. However, regional and international NGOs
require local groups to also raise local concerns before they can lend support.
Bloggers are fine but they are not organised pockets of support for civil
society voices. Organised groups like the Thinkcentre are too few and far
between.
Perhaps in this light, Singapore should be taken as an exception for regional
and international groups. Concern or appeals should be stepped up in situations
where it is much needed such as the last general election where opposition
members were singled out for PAP persecution.
---------------------------------
Panduan untuk bakal pengantin & sudah berkahwin.. cara utk mengawal kewangan,
meningkatkan dana kewangan utk berkahwin & sesudah berkahwin, berbelanja secara
berhemah.. insha ALlah
layari laman web>> http://www.maskahwin.com/index.php?ref=delete
untuk keterangan lanjut
Send instant messages to your online friends http://asia.messenger.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives
http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/JcWolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Alternatif-Net : A Discussion Forum Focusing on Issues Related to Justice
Forum Perbincangan Maya Yang Fokus Kepada Isu Keadilan
Disclaimer: Messages sent do not represent the stand of the Barisan Alternatif
(BA) unless otherwise stated
Complaint : Send to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Sub : Send blank e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To Unsub : Send blank e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alternatif-net/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
