Oh and extra points if you build your IDE with your IDE. ;) Hawt Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 12, 2011, at 4:10 PM, Tim Erickson <[email protected]> wrote: I think you're short-selling the point, Justin. The point *should* be: RenameClass would be something you would do and your IDE/SCMClient/Lightsaber would simply "make it so" -- to totally mix metaphors (and split an infinitive at the same time) ;-) I.e. in my LightsaberIDE, I wouldn't ever see or have to think about anything related to SCM unless and until I wanted to - and even then it should be "View History (of method/class/reference, etc.)" rather than "View Log" or worse yet "View Repository". I must confess I hate git, but if git or any other SCM can handle/achieve this type of integration for me, then I will love it to the point of forgetting about it. I have thought for years, that a SCM system should support and have clients that allow the user to "Read this [file/class/method/member]'s History" instead of "View Log". Show Changes should be able to change the right and left-hand side revisions with one click or arrow key, and should be much more like Google Wave's ability to play back a Wave's evolution (historical changes). In the context of this discussion, this should be able to happen at these more atomic levels and fully integrated within the IDE. Eclipse had something like this with it's "Show Local History" or such, but I've only fraternized with Eclipse casually and nothing long term enough to really get to know it. That's another thing - why depend on check ins/commits at all rather than just saving a version every time the file is saved/built/run? Tie in with Windows' existing "Show Previous Versions" of a file/folder? In fact, I had one mostly written until I realized I was using a diffing library I mistakenly thought was Open Source, but was not and had to remove but have yet to replace. I actually probably want more than one LightsaberIDE - one for .NET or server/desktop stuff, and another for .js client side stuff, but then I'd want another that could do both... Overall, I don't expect ever to finish one. This is more a learning discussion/endeavour for me to try and keep my mind young and an excuse to associate with all you masters out there. T On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Justin Bozonier <[email protected]>wrote: > Basically we're doing file system based messaging between our scm and IDE. > That's fine and all... but what if our ide could actually communicate intent > to our source control? > > RenameClass would appear in your new smart source control, extract method, > etc. > > Suddenly you can follow the evolution of your domain concepts in your > system rather than just lines of text which merely correlate with them. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 12, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Ian Davis <[email protected]> wrote: > > To explain a little more, that quote was mainly for SCM and change > detection for commits. I agree that the IDE should pick up edits for you. > > On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Justin Bozonier <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I really appreciate what you had to say too Ian. I have one thing to add >> right now... >> >> "As stated earlier, where files come in is when detecting changes." >> >> You don't need files to detect changes. Your IDE could be smart enough to >> do that itself. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Apr 12, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Ian Davis <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Code Bubbles has gone nowhere in years now, but I love the workflow and >> idea. I think that if we stopped looking at application as a set of files >> but rather as sets of functionality, the IDE can create the file grouping >> behind the scenes. With ReSharper, I rarely find myself thinking in terms of >> files. I bounce between sets of functionality, open them in multiple >> windows, and use shortcuts to get the the classes/methods that I need. >> >> I think that Code Bubbles will never get anywhere, but not because of its >> principles. Code Bubbles is an unfunded university project put together in >> an ivory tower by college students; how much could any of us do, >> realistically, when we were in college? >> >> As stated earlier, where files come in is when detecting changes. I don't >> have any ideas or answers on this for now. >> >> For an integrated system, I think IntelliJ IDEA is the best model that I >> have seen so far. Built as a polyglot system where all languages are plugins >> with debugging, testing, editing, refactoring capabilities built in. >> >> I have not seen anything revolutionary in being able to build the code or >> manage configurations. I think as a community we are moving toward language >> based build systems: psake, rake, bake, fake which I believe is a great step >> forward. I still feel sick every time I see NAnt scripts. I used to love >> using FinalBuilder, but the more I use language based build scripts, the >> more I think of FinalBuilder as a novelty. I would love to hit a hot key and >> have my 'build script group' pop up and let me run through my build. >> Abstracting the file system leads to some issues with portability of the >> application in trying to target multiple environments. In time, I do see >> this changing. >> >> If you look at Chome OS, the idea of an installed application is dying. >> More and more we are moving toward an always-online environment where >> everything we do is (forgive me) 'in the cloud' and our current development >> systems will probably be relegated to server OS and development >> environments. >> >> Building IDEs is moving into a markup system: Flex, Android, WPF, >> ASP.NETMVC, WP7 all use markup for building the UI. I think this will >> continue >> until we are left with a few renderers for our application's UI. >> >> There are many other issues including, but not limited to >> >> - How do we combine groups of functionality into a component? >> - Source control integration >> - Extensibility >> - External dependencies (gems, nugets, bundles, assemblies) >> >> >> -- >> Ian Davis >> http://innovatian.com >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Seattle area Alt.Net" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Seattle area Alt.Net" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > Ian Davis > http://innovatian.com > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Seattle area Alt.Net" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Seattle area Alt.Net" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Seattle area Alt.Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Seattle area Alt.Net" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/altnetseattle?hl=en.
