>Why should I wait for ALTO if I can do this with reasonable effort by today >with today's means?
It is true that you can use a geo-IP mapping database to guess the rough location of a user. But I have found (by looking at ads served to me) that sometimes the database is off by a municipality or two. My point is, this parameter *might* help a third party figure out who has the highest disposable income within a particular neighborhood. >You may also get much better data if you get access to some consumer rating >agency's database. As a third party (not the user or ISP), how would you make use of that database? Wouldn't it be indexed by name/personal identity and/or home address? That information seems to be outside the context of regular Internet traffic or ALTO - except for phishing scams and naïve users. :( >I see the point you are making, but I would opt for including the possibility >to query to provisioned bandwidth in the ALTO protocol, but leave it to the >discretion of the ISP deploying the service to enable this or not. Including >documenting the privacy risks if enabled. I agree with you here: that is, allow provisioned bandwidth, make it optional, and document the privacy risks. I understand your use case as well. -- Rich ----- Original Message ----- From: Martin Stiemerling <[email protected]> To: Woundy, Richard; [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Thu Mar 18 06:01:45 2010 Subject: RE: [alto] Comments on provisioned bandwidth and ALTO Hi Rich, > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Woundy, Richard > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:42 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [alto] Comments on provisioned bandwidth and ALTO > > Folks, > > I had provided some offline comments about the inclusion of provisioned > bandwidth in ALTO. Enrico asked me to re-send them to the mailing list. > I can also discuss in next week's ALTO session. > > Here are my privacy concerns. > > 1. Depending on the ISP's pricing and rollout of bandwidth tiers, there > may be relatively few subscribers within a particular tier. Therefore a > third party consuming ALTO provisioned bandwidth information can make a > good guess about the identity of a subscriber within a "rarely used" > bandwidth tier. > > 2. Separately, a third party consuming ALTO provisioned bandwidth > information may be able to make an informed guess about the economic > status of a subscriber based on the bandwidth tier, which may not be > desirable to the subscriber. Why should I wait for ALTO if I can do this with reasonable effort by today with today's means? You can use the geo information provided for a particular IP address out of the whois and combine this with some other available data (google maps/street view) to see if people are living in wealthy area or not. Try this with the IP addresses indicated for this email as smtp sender...( 195.37.70.41). Unfortunately, there is no street view for this location, but in other places this will help even better to determine if the residents are wealthy or not. ;) http://maps.google.com/maps?q=49.405839,8.684582&num=1&t=h&sll=49.409988,8.699925&sspn=0.006295,0.006295&ie=UTF8&ll=49.406129,8.685808&spn=0.006828,0.012746&z=16&iwloc=A You may also get much better data if you get access to some consumer rating agency's database. At least in Germany they can tell in most areas house by house the income to be expected. Used by direct marketing... I see the point you are making, but I would opt for including the possibility to query to provisioned bandwidth in the ALTO protocol, but leave it to the discretion of the ISP deploying the service to enable this or not. Including documenting the privacy risks if enabled. My use case for this: The provisioned bandwidth may be used by p2p streaming systems to rule out peers that will anyway not help in streaming (e.g., an peer with 128kbit/s uplink intended to serve full HDTV streams). > > 3. The subscriber may not intend to use *all* provisioned bandwidth for > a particular application (e.g. P2P). For example, perhaps the > subscriber intends to use provisioned uplink bandwidth for > telecommuting, telepresence, online storage backups, etc. A third party > consuming ALTO provisioned bandwidth information should be aware that > the subscriber's provisioned bandwidth may be reserved for different > applications. True, this should be documented as an issue, but as said above this is helpful in ruling out peers anyway not useful. Second, the actual usable bandwidth needs to be tested in the following operational steps of the p2p system anyway. > > Here are my thoughts on dynamic address re-allocation. > > ISPs reallocate IPv4 subnets within their infrastructure from time to > time, partly to ensure the efficient usage of IPv4 addresses (a scarce > resource), and partly to enable efficient route tables within their > network routers. The frequency of these "renumbering events" depend on > the growth in number of subscribers and the availability of address > space within the ISP. As a result, a subscriber's household device > could retain an IPv4 address for as short as a few minutes, or for > months at a time or even longer. > > Some folks have suggested that ISPs providing ALTO services could sub- > divide their subscribers' devices into different IPv4 subnets (or > certain IPv4 address ranges) based on the purchased service tier, as > well as based on the location in the network topology. The problem is > that this sub-allocation of IPv4 subnets tends to decrease the > efficiency of IPv4 address allocation. A growing ISP that needs to > maintain high efficiency of IPv4 address utilization may be reluctant > to jeopardize their future acquisition of IPv4 address space. > > Therefore, consumers of per-user ALTO information should assume that > subscribers retain IPv4 addresses for only a relatively short period of > time, e.g. minutes, and that subscribers of different service tiers > will co-exist in some ISP's IPv4 subnets. I will reply to this in a separate email. Thanks, Martin [email protected] NEC Laboratories Europe - Network Research Division NEC Europe Limited | Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL | Registered in England 2832014 _______________________________________________ alto mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/alto
