Hi Richard, Thank you for the feedback in detail! We will start to investigate the related work (e.g., MOWIE, use cases, Yaxiong's W1 paper, etc.) and try to write such a survey soon.
On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 3:52 PM Y. Richard Yang <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Zili, > > Thanks for the quick feedback! Please see below. > > On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 12:18 PM Zili Meng <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Richard and all, >> >> Thanks for bringing this up! >> >> Sure we'll be very happy if we could contribute to the IETF and the alto >> group on how to feedback the network conditions (e.g., cellular >> information) to the application (the sender). And I also feel that a survey >> and a case study would be very helpful to sort out what we need in the >> scope of alto. >> > > It looks that we are in agreement :-) I did a preliminary search, but do > not see a systematic survey. Such a survey can be an ietf work or an > independent work as a paper. We can wait for the guidance from the WG > chairs or AD. > > As a starting point, I can see that the survey should include not only the > distribution methods (D-* in the previous email), which are potential > solutions, but also > - a list of benchmarking settings, including triggering events, such as > the bandwidth fluctuations that your work addresses; > > - a list of use-case restriction or required features, such as > authentication (restriction), and carrier aggregation, which motivates the > W1 work; > > - a list of performance metrics and their requirements, including those > application metrics and requirements discussed in MOWIE, and network > metrics (e.g., active users) and the requirements on their delivery by the > information channel. > > >> Unfortunately I may not be able to attend the alto meeting in IETF 114. >> > > No problem at all. Email is a good starting point. > > Do you feel it would be better if we first prepare some writeups or drafts >> for the C2 (send the network conditions back to the sender)? We could then >> bring writeups back on the design space and / or the use cases so that we >> can have something to discuss with. >> > > Yes. See above. Let’s write the draft soon. > > Richard > >> > > >> A preprint of the W2 paper is available at >> https://zilimeng.com/papers/zhuge-sigcomm22.pdf for your information. >> We'll also be highly appreciated if there are any comments or feedback. >> >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 1:46 PM Y. Richard Yang <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi ALTO WG, >>> >>> During the weekly meeting today, the design team discussed about the >>> document, and suggested that the authors update the WG on a new version of >>> the MOWIE draft, which was uploaded last week and focuses on cellular >>> network information exposure to network-aware applications. The links to >>> the new version and the diff showing the updates can be found below. Any >>> comments, feedback, or interests in working together are welcome and >>> greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Using this email, we also want to include that there are two quite >>> relevant pieces of work: >>> W1. PBE-CC: Congestion Control via Endpoint-Centric, Physical-Layer >>> Bandwidth Measurements (https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.03475), by Yaxiong >>> Xie, Prof. Jamieson, and Prof. Rexford; >>> W2. Achieving Consistent Low Latency for Wireless Real-Time >>> Communications with the Shortest Control Loop (paper to be made public >>> soon), by Zili, and Prof. Mingwei and team. >>> >>> It helps to use this email to point out a bigger picture of the problem >>> space and related work. One perspective is that the problem space consists >>> of 3 components: >>> C1. What cellular-network information should be collected to be sent to >>> the applications? >>> C2. How is the cellular information sent to the applications? >>> C3. How do the applications use the information? >>> >>> It is important to note that the full exploration of the problem space >>> is not included in the current charter. However, this is an important >>> problem space and hence it helps to keep track of the progress and >>> potential impacts on ALTO. >>> >>> For C1, the impact will be the list of performance metrics. For C3, the >>> current ALTO charter does not include items to define application >>> behaviors, but it can be a point of discussion related to deployment. >>> >>> The most relevant component is C2. We discussed the following design >>> points for C2: >>> D-broadcast: network broadcasts its state >>> D-pass-bounce: network marks its state on pass-through packets and the >>> receiver bounces the state back to the sender >>> D-direct-send: network sends its state to app directly >>> Here by state it can be transformed state. >>> >>> Current ALTO is designed as D-direct-send. Due to lacking of deployment >>> of D-direct-send in cellular network, aforementioned W1 uses D-broadcast; >>> the D-pass-bounce design need at least a round trip time and couples >>> network feedback flow with data flow, leading to the aforementioned W2 work. >>> >>> Many of us feel that the time is ready for introducing a highly >>> efficient, flexible channel for network state exposure to applications, led >>> by IETF, and the ALTO team can be a good starting point. As a first step, a >>> systematic evaluation, which (1) surveys the design space and (2) >>> introduces the use cases/benchmarking scenarios, can be a good starting >>> point. >>> >>> If there is time available in the coming 114 meeting, we can discuss >>> more during the presentation. Otherwise, on-list discussion is a good >>> starting point. We will follow up with more analysis on the list soon but >>> use this email to get the conversation started. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Richard on behalf of Tuesday meeting team >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>> From: <[email protected]> >>> Date: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 at 2:14 PM >>> Subject: New Version Notification for >>> draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt >>> To: Y. Richard Yang <[email protected]>, Gang Li < >>> [email protected]>, Sabine Randriamasy < >>> [email protected]>, Yixue Lei <[email protected]>, >>> Yuhang Jia <[email protected]>, Yunbo Han <[email protected]>, >>> Yunfei Zhang <[email protected]> >>> >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Y. Richard Yang and posted to the >>> IETF repository. >>> >>> Name: draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app >>> Revision: 04 >>> Title: MoWIE for Network Aware Applications >>> Document date: 2022-07-11 >>> Group: Individual Submission >>> Pages: 25 >>> URL: >>> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04.txt >>> Status: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app/ >>> Htmlized: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app >>> Diff: >>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-huang-alto-mowie-for-network-aware-app-04 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> With the quick deployment of 5G networks in the world, cloud-based >>> interactive applications (services) such as cloud gaming have gained >>> substantial attention and are regarded as potential killer >>> applications. To ensure users' quality of experience (QoE), a cloud >>> interactive service may require not only high bandwidth (e.g., high- >>> resolution media transmission) but also low delay (e.g., low latency >>> and low lagging). However, the bandwidth and delay experienced by a >>> mobile and wireless user can be dynamic, as a function of many >>> factors, and unhandled changes can substantially compromise the >>> user's QoE. In this document, we investigate network-aware >>> applications (NAA), which realize cloud based interactive services >>> with improved QoE, by efficient utilization of a solution named >>> Mobile and Wireless Information Exposure (MoWIE). In particular, >>> this document demonstrates, through realistic evaluations, that >>> mobile network information such as MCS (Modulation and Coding Scheme) >>> can effectively expose the dynamicity of the underlying network and >>> can be made available to applications through MoWIE; using such >>> information, the applications can then adapt key control knobs such >>> as media codec scheme, encapsulation, and application layer >>> processing to minimize QoE deduction. Based on the evaluations, we >>> discuss how the MoWIE features can define extensions of the ALTO >>> protocol, to expose more lower-layer and finer grain network >>> dynamics. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Richard >>> >> >> >> -- >> Cheers, >> ---------------- >> Zili Meng >> Web: https://zilimeng.com >> > -- > Richard > -- Cheers, ---------------- Zili Meng Web: https://zilimeng.com
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