Hi, Danny:
BGP community can be seen as a tag attached to the BGP routes exchanged between
two BGP peers.
It is interesting to see ALTO network map can be generated based on
BGP-communities, two questions I want to ask here:
1. We have many common BGP communities, e.g., local AS community, route
target community, route origin community, do you think all these communities
can be used to generate network map
2. For network map, we usually map IP addresses to PIDs, e.g.,
"network-map" : {
"PID0" : { "ipv6" : [ "::/0" ] },
"PID1" : { "ipv4" : [ "0.0.0.0/0" ] },
"PID2" : { "ipv4" : [ "192.0.2.0/24", "198.51.100.0/24" ] },
"PID3" : { "ipv4" : [ "192.0.2.0/25", "192.0.2.128/25" ] }
}
So when we introduce communities, do you think such mapping should be
modified, replaced? What format will looks like?
e.g., should establish the mapping between PIDs and community or should
we define the network map other than ipv4/ipv6 network map?
-Qin
发件人: alto [mailto:[email protected]] 代表 Danny Lachos
发送时间: 2023年7月5日 15:59
收件人: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO
<[email protected]>; Y. Richard Yang
<[email protected]>; IETF ALTO <[email protected]>
主题: Re: [alto] Topic B - maintenance of ALTO protocol // RE: June 20, 2023
meeting minutes and discussion working links
Hi Luis,
Thanks for starting this thread
See a quick comment below:
1/ extension of ALTO to consider operational simplicity. Here fits the proposal
of introducing BGP communities in ALTO. The rationale is that operators use BGP
communities quite often as mechanism for applying policies and determining
certain behaviors on the IP addresses grouped in the form of communities. This
seems quite useful as well at the time of exposing associated information
(metrics, topology, etc) as enabled by ALTO. An initial draft can be found
here: https://github.com/luismcontreras/alto-bgp-communities
The plan is to generate version -01 for IETF 117.
Regarding the use of BGP information (including BGP communities), I was
wondering how to process this data. Should it be considered an aggregation
process?
This is because tons of data will eventually be received, and in this case, the
BGP routing information could be aggregated into subnet prefixes grouped by
their attributes (Communities, BGP nextHop, etc.).
This process will massively compress the BGP data and then this re-structured
and aggregated data could be used to generate, for instance, ALTO network maps
based on BGP-Communities.
Make sense?
On 26.06.23 23:13, LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO wrote:
Hi all,
Related to Topic B on maintenance of ALTO, as a way of summary of what has been
discussed during the last weeks, we could have two major sub-topics:
1/ extension of ALTO to consider operational simplicity. Here fits the proposal
of introducing BGP communities in ALTO. The rationale is that operators use BGP
communities quite often as mechanism for applying policies and determining
certain behaviors on the IP addresses grouped in the form of communities. This
seems quite useful as well at the time of exposing associated information
(metrics, topology, etc) as enabled by ALTO. An initial draft can be found
here: https://github.com/luismcontreras/alto-bgp-communities
The plan is to generate version -01 for IETF 117.
2/ security aspects of ALTO. This has been discussed in both one of the interim
meetings (see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-alto-05/materials/slides-interim-2023-alto-05-sessa-security-aspects-regarding-alto-luis-00)
and one ad-hoc discussion meeting
(https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/HnhO5H5xy4hBGtfm3JI7-K9mq3Y/). The
rationale for this activity is to improve the security around the deployment
and operation of ALTO in production networks. As commented during the interim,
there are a number of security issues documented so far, like:
1. A high-level discussion of security issues in the ALTO problem
statement [RFC5693]
2. Unwanted information disclosure risks, as well as specific
security-related requirements in the ALTO requirements document [RFC6708].
3. Issues related ALTO server discovery in [RFC7286]
4. Identified cases for ALTO deployments in [RFC7971]
5. Security considerations in the remaining RFCs
However, new security concerns emerge from deployments, such as:
1. Obfuscation of PIDs, and the handling of them in scenarios with
multiple ALTO clients
2. Mechanisms for isolation of the ALTO server from direct client
interaction
3. Secure retrieval of information from external components (e.g.,
probes, etc)
4. etc
A potential first step could be to document these new security considerations
and then concentrate on those not solved representing relevant threats in ALTO
operation.
There could be other relevant topics related to the maintenance of ALTO part
from the two commented above.
Any further ideas on this respect?
Of course for those interested on the topics above, please comment.
Thanks in advance
Best regards
Luis
De: alto <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> En nombre de Y.
Richard Yang
Enviado el: miércoles, 21 de junio de 2023 1:47
Para: IETF ALTO <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]>
Asunto: [alto] June 20, 2023 meeting minutes and discussion working links
Hi all,
As suggested by Ayoub, Jordi and others during the weekly meeting today,
starting from today, the note taker will not only update the meeting minutes
page
(https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/meetings-ietf-alto/ietf-alto-2023.md),
but also provide a text summary and comments, if appropriate, on the meeting.
So below are my quick comments and the full meeting minutes are below; the
archive is at the link above.
Regarding comments, the most important item that I, as a note taker, take away
is the wonderful discussion about how to organize future work discussions. In
particular, the participants divided the potential work into 4 areas, and
created 4 github issues. We also created a common Google doc to allow
systematic write up. The links to them are below.
In particular, the four areas and their coordinators are:
- A: Integration of data sources and their exposures; coordinator: Jordi, Luis
and Kai
- B: Maintenance of ALTO protocol; coordinator: Luis, Richard
- C: Security and trust; coordinators: Ayoub, Junichi, Motoyoshi
- D: New architectural extensions; coordinators: Roland and Sabine
We sure can adjust the coordinators. So so, please let me know, and we can
adjust the page. The plan is that the coordinators will closely with the chairs
(Qin and Med) to make concrete progress. The coordinators will kick off the
discussions.
Richard as note taker on June 20, 2023
==== Meeting Minutes Text ====
IETF, ALTO Meeting: June 20, 2023
Agenda:
1. Transport and OAM documents
1. Transport:
https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/draft-ietf-alto-new-transport/issues
2. OAM: https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/draft-ietf-alto-oam-yang/issues
3. ALTO Future Work:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/uIFD6Dhikfu4J4PYcpJTbsiXbnE/
https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/blob/main/FutureALTO/alto-direction-of-work.md
4. Preps for IETF 117:
1. Drafts and presentations that the ALTO group plans to work on
2. Agenda
5. New revision of Green Networking Metrics draft in opsawg:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cx-opsawg-green-metrics/
Minutes
*Note taker: Richard
1. Charter documents: transport and OAM updates
1. OAM: Jensen and Med had a discussion on the draft and submit the
revision to IESG. The document is now waiting for AD review.
2. Transport: Richard sent a note to Martin Thompson, to provide the
justification on introducing server push using PUSH PROMISE. It includes two
basic reasonings: lower load, and the feature is optional; Kai updated that Med
sent two pull requests and sent the latest version for AD review, and wait for
updates.
2. Updates on future work on ALTO
1. Overview: Jordi started with an update on the planning: Please follow the
ongoing conversation on the WG mailing list initiated by Sabine, engaged by
Jordi and Luis; the WG welcomes conversations by all; please socialize the
ideas; leadership is important and please take ownership; this WG meets each
week, and we do not know any other IETF WG that meets each week, but because we
meet each week, we do not use the mailing list, which may appear to be inactive
by those not attending the weekly meeting.
2. Individual topics:
1. Jordi summarized that from the mailing list, item 3 appears to be the
most preferred; please do discussions, propose a charter item and then write
documents; The goal is to go to 117 and should be prepared.
2. Richard commented that one of his focus points will be on data
sources, which can be more informational than standard. Luis advised that there
can be two types of approaches: bottom-up (individuals propose ideas), and
top-down (chairs/AD guidance).
3. Luis suggests that we should take a look at chair-mentioned items such
as BGP communities, and security; mid-term: such as data sources, please go to
the mailing list.
3. Work organization: Meeting notes work plan: Ayoub gave the suggestion that
note taker shares the note to the mailing list, some kind of annotated meeting
minutes. Roland clarified that the sharing notes can be double sent, or
summary/highlights, or up to note taker. Organizing discussions: Luis/Jordi:
email as record, GitHub tickets to organize; Jordi creates 4 tickets, and puts
links to doc.
4. Issues, leads, and working documents:
1. Topic A:
1. GitHub issue:
#48<https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/issues/48>
2. Topic coordinator: Jordi, Kai
2. Topic B:
1. GitHub: #49<https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/issues/49>
2. Topic coordinator: Roland, Sabine
3. Topic C:
1. GitHub: #50<https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/issues/50>
2. Topic coordinator: Ayoub, Junichi, Motoyoshi
4. Topic D:
1. GitHub: #51<https://github.com/ietf-wg-alto/wg-materials/issues/51>
2. Coordinator: Luis, Jordi
5. Discussion Google doc:
1.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rpziU7NZEE8f84XkJSjMhEIHUA5G7rXkGB5c_7UFxUY/edit?usp=sharing
6. Goals: Enabling conversations and concrete documents (compute, edge
service, etc), need to focus; real good way to make progress is internet-draft
(ID) as ground truth, from dynamic to stable, with focus on writing drafts for
concrete results).
--
--
=====================================
| Y. Richard Yang <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> |
| Professor of Computer Science |
| http://www.cs.yale.edu/~yry/ |
=====================================
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