hi,

"While optimization can be employed to search for a good system via 
methods utilizing automated rule creation, selection and combination 
or generic pattern recognition"

anyone care to explain how this works?  Some kind of inversion technique?  Here 
is what I want now give me the rules to get there :)

thanks,

Ed



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Fred 
  To: [email protected] 
  Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 2:37 PM
  Subject: [amibroker] Re: Fitness Criteria that incorporates Walk Forward 
Result


  While optimization can be employed to search for a good system via 
  methods utilizing automated rule creation, selection and combination 
  or generic pattern recognition most people typically use optimization 
  to search for a good set of parameter values. The success of the 
  latter of course assumes one has a good rule set i.e. system to begin 
  with.

  As far as your prediction is concerned ... I suspect there are lots 
  of people, some of who post here, who could demonstrate otherwise if 
  they chose to ...

  --- In [email protected], "brian_z111" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  >
  > "IS metrics are always good because we keep optimizing until they 
  > are" (or words to that effect by HB) which is true.
  > 
  > It is not until we submit the system to an unknown sample, either 
  an 
  > OOS test, paper or live trading that we validate the system.
  > 
  > Discussing your points:
  > 
  > IMO we are talking about two different trading approaches, or 
  styles 
  > (there is no reason we can't understand both very well).
  > 
  > One is the search for a good system, via optimization, with the 
  > attendant subsequent tuning of the system to match a changing 
  market.
  > 
  > If I understand Howard correctly he is an exponent of this style.
  > 
  > It is my prediction that where we are optimising, using lookback 
  > periods, that the max possible PA% return will be around 30, maybe 
  > 40, for EOD trading.
  > 
  > Do we ever optimise anything other than indicators with lookback 
  > periods?
  > If so that might be a different story.
  > 
  > Bastardising Marshall McCluhans famous line I could say "the 
  > optimization is the method".
  > 
  > It is also possible to conceptually optimize the system, before 
  > testing, to the point that little, or no, optimization is required 
  > (experienced traders with a certain disposition do this quite 
  > comfortably but it doesn't suit the inexperienced and/or those who 
  > don't have the temperament for it).
  > 
  > So, if a system has a sound reason to exist, and it is not 
  optimized 
  > at all, and it has a statistically valid IS test then it his highly 
  > likely to be a robust system, especially if it is robust across a 
  > range of stocks/instruments.
  > The chances that this is due to pure luck are probably longer than 
  > the chance that an optimized IS test, with a confirming OOS test, 
  is 
  > also a chance event.
  > 
  > However, if I had plenty of data e.g. I was an intraday trader, 
  then 
  > I would go ahead and do an OOS test anyway (since the cost is 
  > negligible)
  > 
  > Re testing on several stocks.
  > 
  > If the system is 'good' on one symbol, (the sample size is valid) 
  and 
  > it is also good on a second symbol (also with a valid sample size) 
  is 
  > that any different from performing an IS and an OOS test?
  > 
  > For stock trading, I call the relative performance, on a set of 
  > symbols, 'vertical' testing as compared to 'horizontal' testing 
  > (where horizontal testing is an equity curve).
  > 
  > Yes, if an IS test, with no optimization, beat the buy & hold on 
  > every occasion (or a significant number of times) in a vertical 
  test 
  > and the sum of that test was statistically valid and the horizontal 
  > test (the combined equity curve) was 'good' it would give you 
  > something to think about for sure.
  > If some of the symbols, in the vertical stack, had contrary 
  returns, 
  > compared to the bias of my system, I probably would start to get a 
  > little excited.
  > 
  > (I think perhaps you were alluding to something along those lines).
  > 
  > BTW did you know that the Singapore Slingers play in the Australian 
  > basketball league?
  > 
  > Cheers,
  > 
  > brian_z
  >



   

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