Well now that you've said you sell a system - how much is it? d
> -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Barry Scarborough > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 2:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money? > > I will let Tom answer this too but I would like to also. Auto trading > takes the emotion out of trading. If you have nerves of steel, > believe your system implicitly and act immediately, you can manual > trade. I just can't do it. And you are not fast enough to catch the > price when the signal appears, if you are watching the screen ALL the > time. Then when you don't catch it right away what do you do? Wait > and miss the trade, right. The AT part makes the trade in a fraction > of a second after the signal. It has nerves of steel and no emotion. > > Then there are too many times I think the market is going to do this > or that and I start second guessing the system. That is a killer. I > did not understand that until I had a long sting of awful trades, > quit trading and read Trading in the Zone but Mark Douglas, required > reading for the novice as is High Probability Trading by Marcel Link. > One point Douglas makes, and I can vouch for it, is that when you get > an idea about what the market will do it skews your thinking and you > will not see the parts of the chart that tell you to get out or not > trade. You only see what reinforces your belief system. I made a > really bad trade and reviewed it with my wife later. She is very good > at picking stocks, looked at the charts and said, "What the [EMAIL PROTECTED] > did > you do that for??? Looking back after the emotion was gone I saw what > I did not see during the heat of the moment, all the other stuff that > screamed "Not here stupid!" Thinking you know what the market will do > often does more harm than good. > > Your point about futures is true and part of the clue to using them. > When you are trading, small price moves make it hard for a system to > make money. People that try to trade a 1 minute chart have to have a > system that turns on a dime or the bid/ask slippage and commissions > will eat your lunch. Now if you use an hour chart the bars are larger > which makes it easier to catch a gain. Another reason is you can > trade with a lot less money. If you system is good enough to trade > stocks it is probably good enough for futures. > > Don't get the idea that futures are more volatile than stocks. Look > at QQQQ and switch quickly to ER2, Russell 2000 e-mini. The charts > are almost identical and the % volatility is about the same. The > price range is very different. But you need a large price swing to > make money. The reason people use day or week charts is to get the > price range they need to make money. You can get that price variance > in a few hours with futures. So you can make the same money in a > shorter period of time using them, or lose a lot more if you system > isn't any good. > > Writing an auto trading program is a LOT of trouble, is not easy and > you will need to dedicate a lot of time to write and test it and test > it and test it. What the market does in real time will surprise you > when comparing live trades to static charts or back test results > where you use ExRem to filter all the signals out and make the charts > all pretty. That doesn't work in the real world. You will get buy and > sell conditions you will never see and you have to anticipate and > manage them. To see what I mean watch a 1 minute chart when the > market is changing trends, where two MAs are very close and changing > many times a second. > > And things don't happen immediately. When you place a order it takes > time to get a reply from TWS even when using MKT orders. They may not > even fill if the market is thin. Then it takes some more time for the > number of position to change, letting you know you really did trade > something. Your signal can send hundreds of orders during that time, > in only a few seconds, and you have to block them. When I was getting > started I let my system run, simulation account, and when I came back > an hour later it was long 300 futures contracts and was up 75,000.00. > Now why can't I make that mistake in my real account? But 300 futures > contracts? I can't afford that many. > > I do sell a system that will trade one security. I use it with > futures but the auto trading part can be used with anything. Or as a > basis for your own work. Your system/indicators drive the AT part and > that has to work well or there is nothing the AT part can do to help. > Your system is the key ingredient and it has to be a good one, also > true with manual trading. The AT just places orders and manages the > status, does the trade blocking, allows you to set profit and loss > stops and talks to you when a trade is made or status is returned. It > can also send email if you are away from your system. Tom uses his > that way. The program is about 13 to 20 pages long depending on the > level of function and the indicator part is about 1.5 pages. Not the > one or two page example you see on the User's KB. Be ready to spend > the time to develop something that is fairly comprehensive or it will > not work well and you will get disgusted with it. It is a lot of work. > > Learning to use it is the easy part. Once you get it working you can > start it and just watch it make money, or not. Mine was up $1800 the > other day using 1 futures contract, more than 200% gain, in a day. > Sadly it doesn't do that all the time. But you can make money using > AB. > > Barry > > --- In [email protected], "Louis P." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi professor, > > > > Is there a particular reason why you chose futures over stocks? > > > > And why do you use IB automatic trading if trading delay is not a > problem? > > It seemed to me that the more volatile a market is, the faster one > must > > buy/sell. > > > > I'm still thinking about trying IB automatic trading, but it just > seems like > > a hell lot of trouble to learn how to use it. Was it easy for you? > > > > BTW, you said Barry helped you to write the code. This must > help! ;-) > > > > Louis > > > > > > > > 2008/7/31 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > >  > > > Louis, > > > > > > Since I only make trades 3 specific times a day, I don't worry > about the > > > trade delay. I do use IB automatic trading. I have just finished > testing it. > > > I would watch my auto trade and then trade it manually. Now I am > switching > > > to auto trading completely. I had Barry write the trading program > for me. It > > > seems to work great. However, my trading part may have a problem > which > > > prevents a trade occasionally, but it doesn't prevent my trading > from being > > > very profitable. I only trade gold futures which as you know as > very > > > volitable. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > *From:* Louis P. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > *To:* [email protected] > > > *Sent:* Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:48 AM > > > *Subject:* Re: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money? > > > > > > To Tom: Do you use IB automatic trading? Is it possible to test > such > > > feature? I find that intraday trade delay is a major reason why > I don't > > > make any money. If I was faster I could do better. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Louis > > > > > > 2008/7/31 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >> > Is it not obvious to you that some people�s personality > calls for a > > >> trading system, while others personality calls for a > discretionary > > >> approach. > > >> > > >> I think that is the best thing that I've read on this thread! > > >> > > >> I agree. I have found that I am too emotional to try day trading > because I > > >> make emotional decisions. That is why I developed an EOD program > to trade. > > >> When that was very profitable, I had my EOD program converted > to a real > > >> time program and auto trade. I use a dat/night chart and only > trade 3 times > > >> a day. Now I just watch to make sure the auto trade is working > correctly. > > >> > > >> Tom > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> *From:* tuzo_wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> *To:* [email protected] > > >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:31 AM > > >> *Subject:* SV: [amibroker] Re: Anyone actually making money? > > >> > > >> --- In [email protected], "Jan Malmberg" <jan@> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Is it not obvious to you that some people�s personality > calls for a > > >> trading system, while others personality calls for a > discretionary > > >> approach. > > >> > > >> I think that is the best thing that I've read on this thread! > > >> > > >> Tuzo > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only. > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > > For other support material please check also: > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html > Yahoo! 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