The greatest strength AB has, in addition to being a flexible product which incidentally happens to be *very good value for money*, is the AB user community. This user group confers on this product, via it's willingness to help new users, one of it's *greatest* strengths and I would even venture to say has contributed in no small measure to the success of this product. I know I am digressing from the subject matter of this thread but I believe a little bit of appreciation for the people who have helped me and countless others is not out of place here.
R On Tue, Aug 19, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Dennis Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello AmiFriends, > > I think there may be some confusion about why a "discretionary" trader > would want to use AB for their charting needs if their are other > "charting" programs that do a better job on the kinds of charts they > are used to seeing. Discretionary trading the way I do it is not just > look at a chart, draw some S/R lines and pull the trigger whenever I > feel like it. Good discretionary traders follow rules if they want to > be consistently profitable. > > It is just that it is hard to program ALL the rules they follow > (including pattern recognition and economic events) into a simple > procedural language like AFL. However, MANY of the rules they follow > can be programmed in and when presented in an easy to assimilate way > save a lot of energy and aid the decisions about when to trade. > > Of course, if you can't program in ALL the rules, you can't backtest > the whole system. Therein comes the requests for things like easy ways > to mark the trades on the charts for "discretionary" backtesting. > > Textual information is a very low bandwidth path into the human > brain. Graphical information can be assimilated in a flash. It is > the fastest path for information into the brain. Therein comes the > requests for things like different ways to format the charts, colors > added to Parameters Window, more line thicknesses, more X axis > control, more chart primitives, etc., so that the graphical > information can be presented in the way that interfaces the easiest > with that particular trader. Even the rule based systems are easier > to work with when 3D charting is used to show the backtesting results. > > So why AmiBroker for discretionary traders? > > AB is fast! Complex rules and creation of graphical information takes > time. Time lag is the greatest enemy of the realtime trader. > > AB is economical! Lets face it, traders are always looking to buy > low, sell high... LOL. Many are just starting out learning about rule > based trading and programming. I will likely take years (even if a > full time trader) to learn how to make a good system. Not everybody > starts out as a rich successful trader when they decide to look into > using AB. In fact, they are probably looking because they have not > achieved that yet. > > AB is flexible! AFL can do many things and APIs are available to > extend further with other languages. > > AB is well supported! Advanced users are providing help on this list > all the time. AB official support responds quickly and expertly. > Tomasz also stays in close contact with his users and answers many > internal technical questions that only he would know. > > AB is evolving! Tomasz listens to the needs of his users and tries > his best to accommodate as many different needs as he can --even from > the minority. TJ introduces new features and bug fixes at a regular > rate. The betas are of high stability. > > And another thing. Discretionary traders would like to automate as > much of their process as possible. Even though it may be hard or > impractical to turn everything into rules, there is value in turning > as much into rules a possible. It may take many years, but a trader > can slowly gain proficiency in the tool and learn ways of making rules > that seemed impossible last year. Of course for this to happen he > needs to be using AB for his trading now. Supporting his current way > of trading gives him the ability to use the tool while he is slowly > learning how to do more with the tool. > > I started only rule based many years ago - moved to only discretionary > a few years ago - now slowly putting all the pieces together into only > rules again. > > That is it from my perspective. I started writing this a few messages > back, but tacked it on to the last few (good) responses as well. > > Best regards, > Dennis > > > On Aug 19, 2008, at 1:31 PM, _sdavis wrote: > > > Jan, I am curious how you and other discretionary traders are using > > afl and the backtester. You mentioned constructing some models you > > use. Are you also backtesting those models? > > > > I'm intrigued by the tools used by discretionary traders, but I would > > not feel comfortable embarking on a discretionary trading career > > without testing the trading techniques on historical data. > > > > There have been some occasions when I have used the study drawing > > tools and wished for an easy way to incorporate the drawing tool into > > a rule-based system. I would like to see additional afl functions to > > expose the drawing tools to rule-based systems. I think this would > > benefit both rule-based and discretionary traders. > > > > Cheers, Steve > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Jan Malmberg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> How97, > >> > >> You speak for your own personal interests as a systems-only-trader. > >> You > >> should look at things from TJ's side as well. Since he asked us, it > > is clear > >> that he wants some input on how to improve Amibroker's charting > >> side as > >> well. > >> > >> > >> > >> By the way, you are very much mistaken if you think that > >> discretionary > >> traders have no use for Amibroker and its AFL capabilities. I have > >> constructed quite a few models that I use, and have lots more > > coming, that > >> in no way are for system users only. There seems to be a widespread > >> perception that all that discretionary traders do is draw a few > > trendlines, > >> label some Elliott Waves, and look at a few Fibonacci levels. That > > is not > >> true. For instance, I have run various tests on most of the MA's I > > watch in > >> order to assign them their proper level of importance when making > > decisions > >> – which was greatly simplified using Amibroker. Also, a lot of > > discretionary > >> traders use quite advanced custom made indicators in order to > > extract more > >> information from the market. Amibroker is excellent for those > >> things as > >> well. > >> > >> > >> > >> No matter how much I like the program, I will continue to ask for > >> improvements on occasion, especially when the programmer asks for > >> input. > >> > >> > >> > >> You also mention that if this and that program has better abilities, > > why do > >> we not use it? The reason is this: Amibroker lacks a few minor > > things from > >> that program, a few minor things from this program, and so on, while > > having > >> great general and (some) advanced charting capabilities. For TJ to > > gradually > >> add a few useful things from other programs to further improve > > Amibroker for > >> all kinds of users will in the end equal more money for TJ, which in > > the end > >> equals if possible even more dedication, even better software, if > > possible > >> even better support. > >> > >> > >> > >> Since Amibroker in itself is not a system, from my point of view > > there isn't > >> any downside to TJ improving all aspects of Amibroker in order to > > attract > >> more and more users. > >> > >> > >> > >> Lastly, I know of many people who are discretionary traders at > >> various > >> levels of proficiency to whom I recommend Amibroker. It is a very > > simple and > >> mostly user-friendly program, and you get much for the price of the > > program. > >> So, until I see some statistics about the Amibroker users, I would > >> not > >> assume that most of them are hardcore systems or auto-systems > > traders that > >> desperately need all of the (arguably very good and useful) > >> features you > >> mentioned, nor would I assume that even if most customers are system > >> traders, that they would disapprove of new charting features, > > features that > >> in the end may give them new ideas for their system designs. > >> > >> > >> > >> Well, just my 0.13 SEK, and I am not yet an Immortal. > >> > >> > >> > >> Best regards / JM > >> > >> > >> > >> _____ > >> > >> Från: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > För how97 > >> Skickat: den 19 augusti 2008 17:17 > >> Till: [email protected] > >> Ämne: [amibroker] Re: 'Rule Based' versus 'Discretionary' trading... > >> > >> > >> > >> I believe it is clear that the large majority of the AB users want > >> to have the possibility for rule-based trading, backtesting, > >> automatic analysis, automatic trading etc. For that group Amibroker > >> is just excellent and it is constantly enhanced in these > >> possibilities. And that is what the large majority of its users > >> wants. And AB strongly supported by its users and driven by their > >> wishes. > >> > >> The large majority of users is clearly not the discretionary > >> traders. These may need better or specialized charting. That may > >> well be. If this better charting software exists already as you are > >> saying, why are you not using it, why did you come here to AB? What > >> were you looking for? > >> > >> I think it is also a clear preference of Tomasz to develop AB into a > >> direction where most of its users wants to ahve it. And that is > >> good. A lot of the stuff in AB is much too complex if you are just > >> looking for other kinds of charting. So why bother? You need to use > >> a different software. > >> > >> By the way: In my opinion AB allows excellent charting. > >> > >> Regards > >> how97 > >> > >> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com<amibroker%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > >> ps.com, > >> "sidhartha70" <sidhartha70@> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> From my perspective, and this is really why I connected charting to > >>> the ideas of 'rule based' vs 'discretionary' trading... if you are > >> a > >>> discretionary trader, from a software perspective it is ALL about > >>> visibility. If the software you are using doesn't or can't give you > >>> the best visibility available then you are at a disadvanatge. You > >>> can't make sensible discretionary trading decisions without being > >> able > >>> to see how current market structure has evolved, what market > >> dynamics > >>> are at play, how the auction process is evolving at different time > >>> frames etc..etc.. You simply don't get that from bar & candle > >> charts. > >>> > >>> Hence my obsession with Market Profile & Equivolume and generally > >> more > >>> accessability and adaptability to AmiBroker's charting facilicites. > >>> > >>> Currently it's a fabulous piece of software, particualrly for 'rule > >>> based' traders.... But probably a less fabulous piece of software > >> for > >>> discretionary day traders for example. But of course, I appreciate, > >>> it's hard to be all things to all men... > >>> > >>> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com<amibroker%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > > ps.com, > >> Ken Close <ken45140@> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> One simple suggestion for charting improvement: > >>>> > >>>> Put in the ability to insert a "Tab" character in a Title > >> statement > >>> in order > >>>> to make it easier to produce multi-line tables with "columns" > >> left > >>> justified > >>>> no matter how many decimal places in previous values in the same > >> row. I > >>>> have done it via complex IIF statements but how nice it would be > >> to > >>> insert > >>>> the code for a tab character to create columns. No, I do not > >> want to do > >>>> this with the gfx commands (too complex for this application). > >>>> > >>>> Ken > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com<amibroker%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > > ps.com > >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com<amibroker%2540yahoogroups.com> > > > >> ps.com] > >>> On Behalf > >>>> Of Tomasz Janeczko > >>>> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 4:33 PM > >>>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> <mailto:amibroker%40yahoogroups.com<amibroker%2540yahoogroups.com>> > ps.com > >>>> Subject: Re: [amibroker] 'Rule Based' versus 'Discretionary' > >> trading... > >>>> > >>>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> Not wanting to hijack this thread but whenever I ask about some > >> itemized > >>>> list of what is exactly "weak" in AB charting, I don't receive > >> any > >>>> meaningful reply. I would really want to know some objective list > >>> instead of > >>>> statements I heard on ET that "charts are ugly" which for me > >>> unfortunatelly > >>>> means nothing, considering the hunderds of ways charts can be > >> customized > >>>> according to user taste in AB. > >>>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only. > > > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to > > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > > > > For other support material please check also: > > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Please note that this group is for discussion between users only. > > To get support from AmiBroker please send an e-mail directly to > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > > For other support material please check also: > http://www.amibroker.com/support.html > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
