TJ>Especially the feedback from ordinary person, from the beginner and from anybody else
This is Ron Davis aka "ordinary person and anybody else". I think TJ is so good, he could change the ADK so that Plug ins could access the fabulous array processing within Amibroker. I want a plug in, but I don't want anyone to see my AFL smoothing codes. With an ADK that accesses arrays, I could then hire a programmer to make an empty plug in, and then I could place my smoothing AFL codes in it. I have attached a chart IXC to show thest chart lines. Ron D, aka ordinary person. ________________________________ From: Tomasz Janeczko <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 8:09:55 PM Subject: Re: [amibroker] A computer science related question on the AFL Language Hello, > I use your product because it is one of the few that offer decent built in drawing capabilities (pixel level) Oh really? I thought that every language has pixel level drawing, isn't it ? With regards to "some positive attributes" that you mention you surely mean your great sentence that says "AFL is a deeply flawed language". In my understanding is plain unjustified bashing nothing more. And you are once again wrong in your conclusion. I appreciate the feedback. Especially the feedback from ordinary person, from the beginner and from anybody else with one exception. With exception to persons who claim in first sentence that they work for multi-billion-dollar institutions. It is pathetic. If somebody starts with something like that he/she automatically loses all credibility in my eyes. Best regards, Tomasz Janeczko amibroker.com On 2010-01-10 02:44, Potato Soup wrote: > >A very simple question to answer. I use your product because it >is one of the few that offer decent built in drawing capabilities >(pixel level). How much money I or my employers have is largely >irrelevant, all tools are considered for the job. > >>I'm sorry that you don't want to take some constructive criticism from >other people in the field. That is unfortunate for your customers. I, >nor anyone else has suggested that you failed in your original >endeavor, or that AB/AFL is unworthy of any recognition. If you re-read >my original posts you'll see that I mention that it has some positive >attributes. But if you expect everyone to blindly praise you and >suppress constructive criticism or advice than you will be >disappointed. The best software takes the best ideas from everyone and >synthesizes them together. I still have hope that AB can someday be the >best. > >>Cheers. > > > > ________________________________ From: >Tomasz Janeczko <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Sat, January 9, >2010 8:37:17 PM >Subject: Re: >[amibroker] A computer science related question on the AFL Language > > > >>Hello, > >>If you are so great and working for all those multi-billion >institutions I am wondering what are you doing here, >>using so cheap and "flawed" system as you wrote in your original post. >Surely for that amount of money that you have in hand >>you could hire best programmers in the world and write your own >super-trouper language and all that stuff. > >>So please give me a break. I wrote AFL for myself back in 1995 because >I need tool for my own purposes. I decided to offer it for others and >some people liked it. That's whole story. If you do not like it then >search elsewhere or write your own for your multi-billion institution. >And no thanks I do not need your advice. > >>Best regards, >>Tomasz Janeczko >amibroker.com > >>On 2010-01-10 02:24, Potato Soup wrote: > > Sorry for adding my "twisted" opinion, which only has >>experience >>building trading systems for multi-billion dollar institutions. >> >>>>And Python's math modules that are implemented in Fortran and C are not >>"slow" In fact there are Python math implementations that run on GPUs. >>Python as a language can be optimized to be as fast as anything. >> >>>>I'm more than happy to offer help if the AB author needs assistance >>adopting more modern and "twisted" technologies. My goal in offering >>the feedback was to help improve the product. >> >>>>Cheers. >>________________________________ >>From: Tomasz Janeczko <[email protected]> >>Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 02:17:31 +0100 >>To: <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [amibroker] A computer science related >>question on the AFL Language >> >> >>Hello, >> >>>>Precisely. >> >>>>AFL is designed to be able to express trading system rules / indicators >>in easy and short form and to be fast. That's all. It is intended to be >>easy to use and fast thanks to array processing that general-purpose >>languages lack. Just compare Traders Tips formulas published on S&C >>site for various platforms (some of them using so called "standard" >>laguages) and you will quickly find which formula is the shortest and >>easiest to understand. That speaks for itself and has more weight that >>sombody's twisted opinion. >> >>>>If one wants full blown C++ - one can use it - just write your code in >>C++, compile it as a plugin and that's it. >> >>>>Python/Lua and all that stuff are slow compared to AFL array >>processing. And as far as object-oriented programming is considered, >>most people are not comfortable with it (and belive it or not but most >>people are NOT programmers). I can tell that because I hear a lot of >>feedback from users. >> >>>>Best regards, >>>>Tomasz Janeczko >>>>amibroker.com >> >>>>On 2010-01-09 14:57, Prashanth wrote: >> >> >>>Its not a >>>question >>>of whether it can be improved or not. Its a question of how user >>>friendly it is. Most traders are not programmers and hence complex >>>coding is out of question for vast majority. Its this group that >>>appreciates the easiness of coding in AFL as compared to other >>>languages which may hold more potential but can be much more difficult >>>to learn. >>> >>>I believe TJ has >>>simpliefied as much as possible and maybe during that simplification >>>process, there were some sacrifices that were done. Unless one is a >>>hard core programmer, I feel AFL more than meets every specification. >>>For those who like to use more tools, ADK is always there to use and >>>create outside of AB what they desire to achieve. >>> >>>Cheers >>> >>>Prashanth >>> >>>----- >>>>Original >>>>Message >>>>----- >>>>From: Potato Soup >>>>To: AmiBroker (Discussion List) >>>>Sent: >>>>Saturday, January 09, 2010 19:15 PM >>>>Subject: >>>>Re: [amibroker] A computer science related question on the AFL >>>>Language >>>> >>>> >>>>Why design one when Python is free, as is Lua, Squirrel and other easy >>>>scripting languages? I have built many trading systems for hedge funds >>>>and big banks. Never once considered building a language with it. >>>> >>>>>>>>Sounds like you think AFL can't be improved? From a language >>>>perspective AFL has some good ideas and concepts but uneven execution. >>>>A lot of things feel incrementally added, whether they were or not I >>>>don't know. >>>>________________________________ >>>>From: "J Paul Buffon" <[email protected]> >>>>Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2010 08:34:37 -0500 >>>>To: <[email protected]> >>>>Subject: RE: [amibroker] A computer science >>>>related >>>>question on the AFL Language >>>> >>>> >>>>Well, >>>>you >>>>should >>>>design one! As far as I am concerned, elegant and great >>>>price/quality ratio, the best in the market in that bracket. Part of my >>>>tool box and achieved north of 70% last year with it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>JP >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> >>>> On >>>>Behalf Of Potato Soup >>>>Sent: 01/09/2010 8:24 AM >>>>To: AmiBroker (Discussion List) >>>>Subject: Re: [amibroker] A computer science related >>>>question >>>>on the AFL Language >>>> >>>> >>>>AFL is an imperative language >>>>primarily with a dose of vector processing features that enable the >>>>terseness that you talk about. I would not describe it as an OO >>>>language in any way, just because it has OO bindings or provides access >>>>to objects. If you can not write an object then the OO syntax >>>>introduced in the backtester is syntactic sugar at best. I also >>>>wouldn't say it has anywhere near the power of C or C++ just because it >>>>offers some syntax similarities. Those languages derive their power >>>>mainly from their ability to access memory directly, and at the OS' >>>>discretion this means writing directly to hardware memory maps. Of >>>>course C++ takes things much further. But AFL doesn't give you anywhere >>>>the expressive data structure creation abilities that a true imperative >>>>or OO language would. >>>> >>>>>>>>Personally I feel AFL is a deeply flawed language that mixes constructs >>>>from Basic and C at very superficial levels. It provides its power from >>>>underneath the hood, not at the true language level. >>>> >>>>>>>>I would pay a lot of money for AB with Python as its language, using >>>>NumPy as the fast math and numerical processing underpinning. >>>> >>>>>>>>This is not to say that AFL doesn't have elegant concepts or >>>>advantages. It is just not a well designed language from the ground up. >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>From: "cascade3891" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 08:26:59 >>>>>>>>To: <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>Subject: [amibroker] A computer science related question on the AFL >>>>Language >>>> >>>>>>>>Hi Amibroker community, >>>> >>>>>>>>I have specific questions about the AFL language, regarding where it >>>>stands within the computer language spectrum(s) and what effect that >>>>has on speed/performance, agility and modularity as well as its >>>>accuracy for readability and unit testing purposes. >>>> >>>>>>>>I know that AFL is not an object oriented programming language for the >>>>main part (however it does have some OO features like COM), does this >>>>make AFL primarily a functional programming language, a bit like >>>>OCaml?? >>>> >>>>>>>>Are functional programming languages better for financial trading >>>>applications? Where there is a need for speed, and quality stable code? >>>>>>>>AFL seems a lot brief in terms of the amount of code that you have to >>>>write (terse) ... this makes it more attractive for reading over and >>>>checking the code, and for backtesting purposes. >>>> >>>>>>>>I notice also that with AFL you don't have to declare data types, again >>>>making it much more efficient. >>>> >>>>>>>>Is there a drawback to using an OO code for financial trading >>>>systems/applications? >>>> >>>>>>>>I quite like the speed and terseness of the AFL language actually, and >>>>also since it has many similarities to C. But would there be any >>>>limitations to not being able to define classes and objects? >>>> >>>>>>>>I'm not an experience programmer so sorry if I sound green. >>>> >>>>>>>>Anyone have any ideas on Tomasz' original design philosophy when he set >>>>out creating the AFL language? to me it seems like he wanted to keep >>>>the power and similarities to C/C++ given the similar syntactical >>>>structure, whether because he knows that language well, or because he >>>>wanted it to be able to have the same sort of power, but he also seems >>>>to have kept in mind the needs for performance and stability, terseness >>>>for backtesting/speed purposes, and maybe also b/c most traders need to >>>>pick up the language, hence trying to make AFL easier to grasp. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>------------------------------------ >>>> >>>>>>>>**** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** >>>>>>>>This group is for the discussion between users only. >>>>>>>>This is *NOT* technical support channel. >>>> >>>>>>>>TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to >>>>>>>>SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com >>>> >>>>>>>>TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at >>>>http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ >>>>>>>>(submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) >>>> >>>>>>>>For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: >>>>http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ >>>> >>>>>>>>Yahoo! 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