I have to concur. Like you Dennis, I was a long time Mac user (and still do use them for a lot of my personal life). However, biting the bullet and moving my trading business over to a native top end PC has been a great move.
I lived with the kinks and wobbles running Win 64 bit on Bootcamp for almost 3 years... little annoyances I used to ignore (like my computer hanging from sleep mode every week or so)... driver compatibility issues with various bits of hardware... not to mention other little annoyances. The final straw for me was when I was having issues compiling 64 dll's in visual studio 2008. Anyway, for the same money I will sell my mac desktop hardware on ebay for I replaced it with brand new native PC equipment that I spec'ed myself exactly as I wanted. I cannot tell you how fast AmiBroker is running now. Literally lighting. I've never experienced anything like it. I can't do a like for like comparison precisely because I have changed my layouts, cut out un-neccesarry code in some of my charts where I can etc..etc... But where before on my Mac Pro I had 8 charts running with a load factor of about 170% (I had to have 2 separate AB instances running to see the full 12 charts I require).... I now have the full 12 charts running on one instance of AB with a load factor of 80%!!!! I'm blown away. --- In [email protected], Tomasz Janeczko <gro...@...> wrote: > > Hello, > > Any EMULATED, VIRTUALIZED Windows environment (such as Parallels) is NOT good > for 64-bit. > Rob wrote you in previous post that even Bootcamp running on Mac can not give > him the performance > of normal PC box. Apparently Apple has some issues with their drivers > compatibility/performance with MS platform. > > Run NATIVELY on PC hardware and you will see 25%+ speed increase in 64-bit > version over 32-bit version. > > I simply can not belive that you spend so much extra $$$ on hardware with > Apple logo to run virtualized (i.e.) Windows > when you can get faster and cheaper native solution. Does not make any > sense. > > Best regards, > Tomasz Janeczko > amibroker.com > > On 2010-08-10 13:40, Dennis Brown wrote: > > Rob, > > > > Since I have completed my ability to run my simple array vs loop timing > > program in the various setups, I can show some interesting results: > > > > Running under Parallels 5, XP 32 bit, W7 64 bit, AB 32bit, AB 64 bit, 1-3 > > cores, and 4GB RAM: > > > > Using W7 64 bit with AB 32 bit and 1 core as the base case I get a load > > factor of 198% > > > > 2 cores is 4% faster than 1 core. 3 cores is 5% faster than 1 core. > > > > XP is 5% slower than W7 across the board > > > > AB 64bit is 20% slower than AB 32bit **** this is the surprising one > > > > I could not use the actual high speed timer for measurements, because the > > times were to jumpy for 2-3 cores on W7, even with averaging 1000 runs. > > > > This makes me wonder if there is some Parallels/W7 process that is messing > > with this hardware function with multiple cores running. > > > > I was disappointed at the apparent 20% performance penalty for running AB > > 64 bit under Parallels and W7 64 bit. It bears further investigation. > > > > Best regards, > > Dennis > > > > > > On Aug 7, 2010, at 7:28 AM, Rob wrote: > > > >> I thought it would be worth adding a recent experience to this thread... > >> > >> Namely some issues I had running 64 bit AmiBroker and 64 dll's on a Mac > >> Pro running Win 7 x64 under BootCamp. > >> > >> As TJ knows, I was seeing very clear evidence that my 64 bit versions were > >> running slower than the 32 bit equivalents. Despite completely clean > >> installs of AB 32& 64 bit I simply could not resolve the issue. > >> > >> Anyway, I subsequently moved all the code and apps across to the PC I have > >> just built and everything works 100% as it should. i.e. 64 bit AB with 64 > >> dll's are about 25% faster on this new machine. > >> > >> I mention this just to highlight that virtualization solutions (even > >> bootcamp) have kinks& wobbles particularly around the cutting edge of > >> software development (i.e. full support for 64 bit OS and software > >> including development software). It's worth bearing these things in mind > >> because time spent trying to resolve these issues can often be wasted time. > >> > >> > >> --- In [email protected], Tomasz Janeczko<groups@> wrote: > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> 1. Does not make difference > >>> > >>> 2. Yes it can handle that > >>> > >>> Best regards, > >>> Tomasz Janeczko > >>> amibroker.com > >>> > >>> On 2010-08-05 05:26, XIAOFEI wrote: > >>>> It is a great discussion! > >>>> > >>>> I plan to use i-7 pc to trade no more than 10 futures. For each afl > >>>> formulas are short and simple. I would like to have the quickest way to > >>>> place my trades. My data source: IB about 0.3 second per tick. > >>>> > >>>> I would appreciate if someone could reply following questions: > >>>> 1/which way to trade is quicker? > >>>> Each future instruments in separated chart windows, trade them through > >>>> chart indicator and set refresh (0); or run AA once a second on each > >>>> separated windows. > >>>> > >>>> 2/Can window 7 program handles 10 chart renderings at the same time? I > >>>> learned from previous posts that window 7 has improved the Gdi lock > >>>> problem some extent. > >>>> > >>>> Brgds/Bill > >>>> > >>>> --- In [email protected], Dennis Brown<see3d@> wrote: > >>>>> Herman, > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for the suggestions. I agree that code can give the best > >>>>> improvements, but at a big cost of time to implement. Actually I use a > >>>>> mixture of the things you suggest, and have a number of them on my > >>>>> to-do list. I have a lot of algorithms that I still want to test out, > >>>>> and I want my code to be as simple and straight forward as possible > >>>>> until I like the results and it is debugged. I am saving the more > >>>>> esoteric code enhancements for after I am happy algorithmically, and my > >>>>> only concern is speed. > >>>>> > >>>>> I only have one chart that runs realtime, since I only trade one > >>>>> future. I have recognized that since I run different timeframe > >>>>> algorithms all at the fastest resolution (15 second bars right now), > >>>>> but some things are not needed at that timeframe resolution, I could > >>>>> gain speed by using, for instance, 5 minute bars for some time > >>>>> consuming algorithms with timeframe compress and expand. > >>>>> > >>>>> I had been running 1 minute bars until recently, but found that I > >>>>> needed 15 second bars to make my scalping algorithms work reliably. > >>>>> This gave me an instant huge degradation in speed. I had to go from 5 > >>>>> day history to 1 day history to just keep my charts running in > >>>>> realtime. I really need 10 days of history for context in the > >>>>> algorithms. I already save things in static arrays to keep from > >>>>> recalculating them. This is mostly to be able to update the chart > >>>>> image so that I can run fast enough to operate the UI during long > >>>>> off-line backtests. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have been doing a lot of thinking about ways to speed up my one > >>>>> chart. It will be a long process though, with all the things on my to > >>>>> do list. > >>>>> > >>>>> BR, > >>>>> Dennis > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 1:19 PM, Herman wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I agree playing with market data is always interesting and > >>>>>> challenging: great fun in my book. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I have always found that making my code execute faster can give > >>>>>> improvements far above buying new hardware (unless you are using a ten > >>>>>> year old computer). > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Perhaps you are running speed-optimized code... if so ignore my > >>>>>> comments. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For speed i may partition my code according to priority, some complex > >>>>>> charts may not need to update with each new quote. Lengthy procedures > >>>>>> and scans can be partitioned and interlaced with other tasks, some > >>>>>> code needs to run only periodically (1sec, 10sec) or execute > >>>>>> sequentially, you can use smart scans that scan fast changing (or > >>>>>> those near a trigger price) tickers more often and and others less > >>>>>> frequent, some complex charts can be saved in static arrays that are > >>>>>> refreshed only periodically (similar to the often requested feature of > >>>>>> saving a hart image), sometimes you don't really need fully Backfilled > >>>>>> data all the time and GetRTDataForeign() to give you only the last > >>>>>> quote (FAST!) may be enough, etc. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course careful CHECK analysis for bottle-necks is essential. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Happy program solving :-) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> herman > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Rob, > >>>>>>> It is always a tough choice between different tools > >>>>>>> tradeoffs for each trader. There never seems to be one > >>>>>>> universal solution that works for everyone. I think that > >>>>>>> is because there is not one universal way to trade the > >>>>>>> markets. There are so many different trading vehicles and > >>>>>>> styles. Couple that with the different mental and > >>>>>>> emotional personalities of the traders and it is one very > >>>>>>> rich landscape. Everyone is looking for some inefficient > >>>>>>> niche to exploit. It is the traders that can find an > >>>>>>> under-exploited niche that can make money. The best ones > >>>>>>> are the original finds of course. That is what makes > >>>>>>> trading the markets so interesting. > >>>>>>> I had hoped that I could just work on my trading > >>>>>>> algorithms, and over time, the CPU hardware would get more > >>>>>>> powerful. Unfortunately, the CPUs seem to have hit > >>>>>>> resistance in the 3-4 GHz zone. Increases in power have > >>>>>>> switched to more parallel cores instead. This is > >>>>>>> unfortunate, as it requires a lot of work on TJ's part to > >>>>>>> code for parallel processes in a way that makes sense for > >>>>>>> AB. Faster CPU's would have been so much easier for all concerned. > >>>>>>> BR, > >>>>>>> Dennis > >>>>>>> On Aug 2, 2010, at 2:52 AM, Rob wrote: > >>>>>>>> Fair enough... I have an Apple background myself Dennis and was > >>>>>>>> running AB on both Fusion and eventually Bootcamp for the past few > >>>>>>>> years. > >>>>>>>> Anyway, I just bit the bullet and build myself a trading PC... I've > >>>>>>>> moved away from my 8 core 3 Ghz mac pro for a 4 core i7 overclocked > >>>>>>>> to 4Ghz (8 cores if you count hyperthreading). Anyway, I wish I'd > >>>>>>>> done it a while ago. The performance boost has been hugely > >>>>>>>> significant. > >>>>>>>> Basically Mac Pro's are not build for linear processing like that > >>>>>>>> required by AmiBroker when it's pushed... you need less cores and > >>>>>>>> more power in each core. Mac Pro's are great for proper > >>>>>>>> multi-threaded apps like video editing in final cut pro. > >>>>>>>> Just my 2 cents as a mac user too. > >>>>>>>> --- In [email protected], Dennis Brown<see3d@> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Rob, > >>>>>>>>> I realize I would get some performance boost, but no can do. I run > >>>>>>>>> a lot of Mac programs on the same machine that support my trading. > >>>>>>>>> I give 2 cores to the Mac and 2 cores to the PC. The only reason I > >>>>>>>>> run Parallels is to run Amibroker. Otherwise, I would have no need > >>>>>>>>> or use for Windows or Parallels. BTW, Parallels V5 is quite a bit > >>>>>>>>> faster than V4. Fusion 3.1 is a lot faster than 3.0. It is close > >>>>>>>>> to Bootcamp now, except for gaming graphics. > >>>>>>>>> I also have a duplicate machine that runs the rest of my trading > >>>>>>>>> software and general things like email and web browser. Both > >>>>>>>>> machines are tightly networked together and back each other up. If > >>>>>>>>> my Parallels machine goes down for any reason, I can bring it up on > >>>>>>>>> the other machine from a time machine restore. As far as Windows > >>>>>>>>> knows, the hardware never changed. > >>>>>>>>> Maintainability, security, and redundancy are more important to me > >>>>>>>>> than speed. If I were to take the approach of running W7 + AB > >>>>>>>>> natively on a machine, I would get a completely separate machine > >>>>>>>>> just for that, but then I would have to network it into the Macs > >>>>>>>>> for backups. Instead, I would likely make it more like a read only > >>>>>>>>> realtime execution system for the day. The real development would > >>>>>>>>> stay in the Parallels system and I would download the AB folder > >>>>>>>>> every day. It would not be as simple a setup to maintain as I now > >>>>>>>>> have. > >>>>>>>>> BR, > >>>>>>>>> Dennis > >>>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2010, at 6:40 PM, Rob wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Dennis, > >>>>>>>>>> I imagine you'd get a huge performance boost from running under > >>>>>>>>>> Bootcamp rather than Parallels. That's my experience anyway. > >>>>>>>>>> Simply Parallels& Fusion, despite what they claim can't match > >>>>>>>>>> the native speed under Bootcamp. > >>>>>>>>>> --- In [email protected], Dennis Brown<see3d@> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> Jerry, > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for this information. These are fantastic results. > >>>>>>>>>>> I have been waiting for the best time to move from XP 32 bit to > >>>>>>>>>>> W7 64 bit. > >>>>>>>>>>> IQFeed and AB 64 bit are now available, I just upgraded my RAM to > >>>>>>>>>>> 8GB yesterday, and Parallels on a Mac now supports W7 64 bit. > >>>>>>>>>>> It seems that all the parts are in place to make the switch to 64 > >>>>>>>>>>> bit. > >>>>>>>>>>> However, I am still wary of making the switch too soon before all > >>>>>>>>>>> the bugs are worked out. Even though I am desperate for more > >>>>>>>>>>> speed, > >>>>>>>>>>> I still have to use this system in live trading every day. > >>>>>>>>>>> It looks like I will have to make an experimental version of the > >>>>>>>>>>> complete system as a new virtual machine in the next several > >>>>>>>>>>> weeks to test it. > >>>>>>>>>>> Best regards, > >>>>>>>>>>> Dennis > >>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2010, at 11:54 AM, Jerry Gress wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello All, > >>>>>>>>>>>> My results using 64 bit vs 32 bit, mid morning market hours > >>>>>>>>>>>> using IB, not IB > >>>>>>>>>>>> Gateway. Running 4 charts, under 'Code Check& Profile" the two > >>>>>>>>>>>> biggest > >>>>>>>>>>>> total time users are Foreign and Set Foreign, 10.263 and 9.973 > >>>>>>>>>>>> ms for total > >>>>>>>>>>>> of 0.0260055 sec. All running on quad core Q8200 2.34 GHz, 4 GB > >>>>>>>>>>>> memory. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Load Factor: > >>>>>>>>>>>> 32 bit = 116% > >>>>>>>>>>>> 64 bit = 58% > >>>>>>>>>>>> Total refresh time: > >>>>>>>>>>>> 32 bit = 212 ms > >>>>>>>>>>>> 64 bit = 117 ms > >>>>>>>>>>>> Total Data Access Time: > >>>>>>>>>>>> 32 bit = 18 ms > >>>>>>>>>>>> 64 bit = 1 ms > >>>>>>>>>>>> Plug in time: > >>>>>>>>>>>> 32 bit = .3 ms > >>>>>>>>>>>> 64 bit = .2 ms > >>>>>>>>>>>> Free virtual memory: > >>>>>>>>>>>> 32 bit = 3905 mb > >>>>>>>>>>>> 64 bit = 8388448 mb > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks TJ > >>>>>>>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>>>>>>> JG > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>>>> **** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** > >>>>>>>>>>>> This group is for the discussion between users only. > >>>>>>>>>>>> This is *NOT* technical support channel. > >>>>>>>>>>>> TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to > >>>>>>>>>>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ > >>>>>>>>>>>> (submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) > >>>>>>>>>>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > >>>>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>> **** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** > >>>>>>>>>> This group is for the discussion between users only. > >>>>>>>>>> This is *NOT* technical support channel. > >>>>>>>>>> TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to > >>>>>>>>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > >>>>>>>>>> TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ > >>>>>>>>>> (submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) > >>>>>>>>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > >>>>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > >>>>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>> **** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** > >>>>>>>> This group is for the discussion between users only. > >>>>>>>> This is *NOT* technical support channel. > >>>>>>>> TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to > >>>>>>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > >>>>>>>> TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at > >>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ > >>>>>>>> (submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) > >>>>>>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > >>>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > >>>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>>>>> **** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** > >>>>>>> This group is for the discussion between users only. > >>>>>>> This is *NOT* technical support channel. > >>>>>>> TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to > >>>>>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > >>>>>>> TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at > >>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ > >>>>>>> (submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) > >>>>>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > >>>>>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > >>>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> **** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** > >>>> This group is for the discussion between users only. > >>>> This is *NOT* technical support channel. > >>>> > >>>> TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to > >>>> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > >>>> > >>>> TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at > >>>> http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ > >>>> (submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) > >>>> > >>>> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > >>>> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > >>>> > >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------ > >> > >> **** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** > >> This group is for the discussion between users only. > >> This is *NOT* technical support channel. > >> > >> TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to > >> SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > >> > >> TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at > >> http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ > >> (submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) > >> > >> For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > >> http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > >> > >> Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > **** IMPORTANT PLEASE READ **** > > This group is for the discussion between users only. > > This is *NOT* technical support channel. > > > > TO GET TECHNICAL SUPPORT send an e-mail directly to > > SUPPORT {at} amibroker.com > > > > TO SUBMIT SUGGESTIONS please use FEEDBACK CENTER at > > http://www.amibroker.com/feedback/ > > (submissions sent via other channels won't be considered) > > > > For NEW RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENTS and other news always check DEVLOG: > > http://www.amibroker.com/devlog/ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > >
