Just to be clear, as Karel just asked me on msn.. I joined the pymsn team, yes, but it was a choice totally unrelated to aMSN2.. it was because the developers became friends and i wanted to help, that's it.
KaKaRoTo On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 06:28:44AM -0500, Youness Alaoui wrote: > Hi Karel, > Please don't take the following email as offending, I do not try to offend > you or turn you down on what you're saying or the research you've been > doing or anything.. BUT : > Please do not give 'solutions' or 'proposals' or 'if aMSN2 uses...' or any > other kind of talk about aMSN2's design. This applies to anyone else, and > unfortunately this is a mailing list thread and not a forum thread so I > cannot 'lock' the thread, so I'm asking everyone to NOT answer to this. > The reason is simple, I wrote a lot of code for aMSN2 already, a design was > made with caution, involving mainly Phil as well as opinions from other > developers. I had a working/semi-usable aMSN2 ready since last july, but I > didn't have time to clean it/polish it/finish it, in order to release it... > The design is done and will not change as we think that this is what aMSN2's > future should be. We made very thorough decisions involving a LOT of > research and proof of concepts meant to be thrown away to test various > theories, we reviewed a lot of solutions and considered all the things that > aMSN2 needs in terms of usability, performance, development time, team > involvment, team motivation, knowledge transfer, GUI of course, language, > libraries to use, etc... > We made decisions that will most benefit aMSN2 in every aspect considered, > BUT of course, not everyone can be happy... for example, if we decided to > use GTK, all QT lovers will rant, if we decided to choose QT, all GTK lovers > will rant, if we decided to use something all, maybe the whole world will > rant. The same can be applied to the language. > For this specific reason, we chose not to disclose anything, because if we > do, we will generate a huge flame war which will never end and aMSN2 will > never see the light. We want to avoid flame wars, trolling, etc.. and since > there will always be someone unhappy about our choices, we will have to > make a decision for everyone and impose it, force it to the community as 'the > decision', and not 'the proposal'. And as experience serves, when we > decide something and implement it, and people try it, it's accepted, if we > ask about it, noone agrees and nothing gets done (take for example all the > lengthy discussions we had on the ML and what about the inline spaces thing, > etc.. once implemented, everyone's happy, and noone is when it's being > discussed). > For that reason, we decided to keep it all a secret, and not talk about it. > And this email will only generate flaming, I already see 10 people getting > all excited and starting to type about how cool it would be if we chose > python, and another 10 people writing how python would be a bad choice, and > let's not talk about all the dbus-haters and/or the people who do not want to > see telepathy added to the project.. another few people will be happy to > see telepathy added and will start a flamewar about whether aMSN should be > multiprotocol or single protocol stating that telepathy will allow us to be > multiprotocol easily, etc ... It will generate a lot of useless, time wasting > talk about something that was already designed, decided, and written and > will not change anytime soon. > > All I need is to get some free time and get together with Phil and Harry and > TomH and some other guys involved in aMSN2 and polish the current code we > have, I don't want to release it as it is because people will start coding > and will mess things up, so I want to have the full/complete structure of > the code set up and let people just 'fill in the blanks'. > > p.s.: Just for the record, as some of you already know, and you can check > that on pymsn's website I guess, I'm part of the pymsn team since June I > think. I met Ali Sabil and Johan Prieur and Ole Andre (the 3 guys behind > pymsn) in real life at the guadec conference in birmingham and we bonded a > lot, we had a lot of fun and a lot of talking, and a lot of hacking together > and they convinced me to help them on pymsn so I joined the project. > Considering my MSN protocol knowledge, I can help them a lot and I've already > implemented offline messaging and spaces support into pymsn as well as > a part of the MSNP2P stack in order to allow webcam support. > > KaKaRoTo > > On Thu, Jan 17, 2008 at 11:35:51AM +0100, Karel Demeyer wrote: > > Telepathy's officially supported MSN protocol connector (pymsn) now uses > > MSNP15 too. They're now working on adding support for nudges, custom > > emoticons audio/video and so on. Still, this looks like a big step as it's > > a full rewrite. We should keep our eyes and ears open :). > > > > If aMSN2 is going to use telepathy, some of us who know MSNP and python that > > are not into C could go on like this ;) Personally I think that such a > > protocol implementation in python makes a lot of sense as we've seen the > > protocol change often and, IMO, it's more "rapid" (as in RAD) to adapt > > python code then it is in C-code, though I'm not an expert :). > > > > Now if we only had tcl/tk-dbus bindings we could still have our interface > > (which would be what amsn is then ?) in tcl/tk :p ... but that discussion > > might have been closed already :). > > > > Karel. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > > Defy all challenges. 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