Hi, Yep you are probably right about the size.
I just pulled that number from memory, let me check what it actually is: Metroid is 3Meg Super Metroid is also 3Meg MsPac man is 256K! Arkanoid is 512K Mario AllStars is 2Meg Of course this is machine code tho, so the sizes are 100% transferrable. -niko20 On Nov 11, 12:01 pm, Dan Sherman <[email protected]> wrote: > Just a side note to one of your points: > > You mention the example of Metroid weighing in a 8mb, and obviously being a > great game. > > There's a few problems with that observation, not that it doesn't have its > merits, just trying to point out some things that might not have been > thought of :) > > 1) From our studies in Cestos/ProjectINF, slightly over 50% of our users are > on Edge. Downloading 8mb on Edge takes _way_ too long to be reasonable. > You end up losing a lot of potential users due to time between "I want to > play", and actual playing. > 2) If they _do_ decide to download the game, 8mb is a huge amount of space > on limited devices like the G1. There's also a bug currently with the > market, where applications require 4x their space to install. In this > example, an 8mb game, requires 32mb of space available (on a 48mb [I think] > G1, thats rediculous). And the error message states only "Installation > Failed". So developers would get a good number of emails from users > complaining to "Fix your game". > > Again, just some observations regarding the size constraint issue. Our > games weigh in at 1.5mb, and 5mb with full drawn menuing and music/sounds > (with what we'd like to consider great gameplay), but after releasing a 5mb > game, we're extremely unlikely to do it again because of issues we've had :) > > - Dan > > > > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Nightwolf <[email protected]> wrote: > > There is a problem with Garbage Collector. You should be really > > careful to avoid producing too much garbage. While your game itself > > doesn't invoke GC in several minutes other apps still do. So there > > will be slowdown. If it's a fast arcade game user may miss the bad guy > > or fall into pit and will be very upset. > > Using touch and trackball controls produces huge cpu load. "Sleep" > > workaround helps a little. > > Having real device is crucial to game development because you may > > choose wrong render path or algorithm implementation. Some things work > > faster on emulator and others on device. > > I'm curious to know how many full-time devs work on Android apps. > > Everyone I know have primary job and do android development in their > > free time. This may be one of the reasons why so many apps are > > unpolished. > > > BTW I tried Donkey Kong and that was terrible. Sega emulator works > > better but still not good enough. Droid is definitely faster than G1. > > > On 11 ноя, 17:49, Justin Giles <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Just want to throw out a "me too" here. When I got my android phone not > > too > > > long ago, I was also surprised at how unpolished a lot of the games were, > > > especially the free ones. That is what inspired me to make my first game > > > and try to make it both a) responsive and b) more polished than those > > that > > > were out there. If we just put in the extra little effort in these two > > > categories, the android marketplace will be a much more attractive and > > > lucrative place to publish your applications. > > > > Thanks for the added insight niko! > > > > Justin > > > > On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 7:21 AM, niko20 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > This is just an observation I had yesterday. I go myself a DROID now, > > > > and last night I was pulling down several different games that have > > > > good ratings to try them out. > > > > > I have to say, Im actually pretty disappointed right now, I know > > > > android should be able to perform better than this, although I will > > > > admit yes, its still quite new in the gaming department. > > > > > I am not ranting or anything here. Yes I know that if I wanted a > > > > better game than I should code one, I'm just making an observation > > > > here. Please bear with me. > > > > > Firstly, several of the games I downloaded were just "slow", or laggy. > > > > Maybe its the touch screen input that messed with them I don't know. > > > > But I wouldn't consider them very fun because they didn't really > > > > "feel" responsive. I'm not sure I should name any games outright so I > > > > don't annoy their developers. But some had touch screen controls, > > > > which I found didn't seem to respond very well. Even some of the word > > > > games where you draw across the letters to make the word didn't really > > > > respond as nicely as they could have (IMO). > > > > > Others worked ok except they would have frequent slowdowns if too much > > > > was going on the screen at once (to be expected). > > > > > Others were sort of ugly, because they combined their own graphics > > > > with android's built in GUI graphics (note to game devs, you want a > > > > hit game? Write all the graphics yourself, even the menu screens, it > > > > just will look better) > > > > > The main reason I post this is because as android devs, we really need > > > > to step up our game a bit here. Looking at a lot of these games, I see > > > > two main problems: 1. The were never tested on a real device. 2. They > > > > have not been optimized in any way that I can tell. > > > > > Ok first problem I'm also guilty of, so I'll let it slide. Not > > > > everyone can afford a real device. But face it, that will be a > > > > roadblock to really making the game perform as well as it could. Maybe > > > > you could write the next hit without one, but I think your chances are > > > > a lot smaller, since you won't be able to test out the touch interface > > > > as well, etc. It does make a difference to try it on a real device, I > > > > learned that myself! > > > > > Second problem: It's sad to me that the Super Nintendo Emulator loaded > > > > with a Metroid ROM performs awesomely, but yet no "native" android > > > > game comes even close to that performance (of games that I have > > > > tried), as far as speed, animation, and overall responsiveness. Now, > > > > I'm sure the devices we have are at least as fast as a super nintendo > > > > was, if not faster. And while I know we are programming in java, not > > > > in machine code, that Super Nintendo Emulator seems to work fine, so > > > > what are they doing behind the scenes to draw the screen?. So that > > > > means if you wrote a game to be optimized, wrote it as though it was > > > > on a lesser platform, it should run great on android. Maybe just use > > > > smaller images, and draw to a smaller bitmap in memory, and stretch > > > > it. Even if it looks a bit pixelized, if the game is fast and has good > > > > response, people will enjoy it. I know I actually like that pixelated > > > > look, it gives games that nice retro feel. For newer games OpenGL > > > > probably has to be used to make it fast enough. > > > > > Also, as a side note, those old school nintendo games - Metroid for > > > > example, would take at least 8 hours or so to complete (maybe not if > > > > doing a speed run), and it was only around 8MB in size, even with all > > > > the sounds and animations. I'm pretty sure if a game came out like > > > > that for android it would still be a big hit (a game that was as fun > > > > and responsive and enjoyable as the metroid series), even if the > > > > graphics weren't "Multi pixel shaded OpenGL god given awesomeness". > > > > Remember gaming experience is all about the feel of the game, not just > > > > how pretty it is (but it better not be ugly either). > > > > > I think what leads into the second problem are two issues: we are > > > > programming mainly in java, and also the "newbieness" of most java > > > > programmers. Honestly I dont think anybody that had to learn java ever > > > > had to take time to optimize. We just throw the code at the computer > > > > and let it chew through it. I mean Java itself doesn't leave a ton of > > > > room for "improvement" in itself. However, as devs we really need to > > > > start thinking as the old-school programmers did, of "how can I make > > > > this faster", or "use less memory". > > > > > Don't come out against me and say I'm wrong about having all these > > > > developers that don't know about optimization because they have never > > > > had to do so in their life - just search the forums for all the devs > > > > that have problems wanting to display a 2048*2048 bitmap and have it > > > > scroll, and they don't know how. To dev's that have been around a > > > > while, that have had to work on less than stellar platforms, they know > > > > how to code that to be fast (chop the bitmap up into tiles, only draw > > > > tiles needed, etc, probably even some ways I dont even know about yet > > > > too). > > > > > What we really need is to refocus on how to write small fast programs. > > > > It's really become a lost art of sorts over that past years, because > > > > computer power has increased so much nobody thinks of it. But on > > > > mobile devices we need to! And having all these Java trained guys > > > > fresh out of school isn't going to solve that problem! Guys, you > > > > really need to go back to basics and focus on the hardcore numbers of > > > > performance. I don't mean that to offend anyone, but only to help > > > > awaken everyone (including myself), that this is really an interesting > > > > field of study and it will be worth the effort! Back in the day (no, > > > > I'm not that old yet), programmers had to work to get things to run as > > > > fast and smooth as possible, but we've been able to take that for > > > > granted for a while now. > > > > > Maybe if some of the games I tried switched to using OpenGL instead of > > > > SurfaceView they might have faster performance, and agreed, that > > > > wasn't available as easily for a while. Also, we don't have native > > > > access to audio yet, so that also can slow us down. I'm sure the > > > > gaming in android will improve over the next year, but I just wanted > > > > to share my current observations on what I see going on right now. I > > > > hope we as devs can overcome java, and android, and work on optimizing > > > > our games to work smoothly, respond quickly, and look great. > > > > > -niko > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. 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