One of these days I have to dive in to NDK. I haven't done C code in 12 years.. I am afraid I've probably forgotten all my old C code. Having last worked with Watcom C/C++ and Borland C++... is the NDK C that much different? I am wondering if there is a book or something I should get/read to get a good idea of how to use NDK with android.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 12:08 PM, niko20 <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, agreed on the low latency audio. However I do think this may be > more of an issue with the hardware possibly. For example, if may > depend on the hardware what kind of audio abilities you get, whereas > in the iPhone they are all a standard set by Apple. But right now the > smallest latency is around 100ms or so buffers, which is way too much > (slow) > > Fortunately I'm making apps that really dont care about latency, they > are sample driven (my main app is Electrum Drum Machine), they only > have latency problems when trying to play live with the touchscreen > (and I think some of that latency is from the screen hardware itself). > So for me processor power is most important right now. Having access > to NDK audio would be nice, but not really necessary, since I've found > that calling JNI and passing a buffer back from Native Code doesn't > have as much overhead as most people think, I've had speed increases > of up to 100 or more by doing so, native code is just that much faster > than the Dalvik java! > > > -niko > > On Mar 17, 11:32 am, Kevin Duffey <[email protected]> wrote: > > I too wanted to work on some audio apps.. I had bought BeatMaker on > iPhone, > > and wanted to do something similar for Android. It's a blind guess, but > > unless the google team has a massive update in 3.0 coming by end of year, > I > > would guess that we wont get the audio/low latency capabilities of iPhone > > for at least 2 years. I can not imagine why, but games and audio, even > tho > > they are huge on the iPhone, seem to be lacking interest from the Android > > team as being important. From the various forum posts I've seen over the > > last several months, it seems like the JVM doesn't have a JIT, so its > > actually slower than J2ME JVMs although the hardware is faster so it is > > probably comparable. Most basic apps run fine, but games struggle to keep > > solid framerates up do to the GC issues among other things. With a new > > thread that started a few days ago describing other apps stealing cpu/gc > > cycles and causing games to hiccup, there seems to be almost no way to > > provide a solid smooth game that provides any sort of detail all the > time. > > I've not personally played any iphone level game on android other than > basic > > puzzle games, so I am formulating my opinion from various other > developers > > that have posted these issues. > > > > I would agree that Android is STILL more appealing to write for than > iPhone. > > I just can't stand the ridiculousness of apple and their changes, > forceful > > removals, etc. It's crap. I don't care if there are 60 million iPhones > and > > only a few million android devices... why suffer thru having to work with > > objective-c and having to own a mac to write for it, and all their > rules.. > > worrying about whether or not your months of hard work will even get > > approved. > > > > but ya, Android has a long way to go to catch up. If they are even trying > > to. I don't know if anyone on the android team could comment, but it > would > > be really nice to get some sort of inclination of what is going on with > the > > various threads discussed here about the major shortcomings of android. I > > would think that android/google would be listening to the developers that > > plan to write for it, and thus want to focus resources on things like low > > latency audio, keeping background processes from interfering with > foreground > > real-time games, better 3D support and so on. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Sundog <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Right on point here, all three of you, and representative of the > > > problems of both platforms. I won't even consider continuing my IPhone > > > development, but I've had to completely drop several projects I wanted > > > to do in Android because it simply isn't up to it. Since they're being > > > nice enough to send me a phone I'll probably try once more, but I'll > > > choose what I write around what Android can do well (audio-visually), > > > which isn't much. Margarita Drop was a silly little game but I had to > > > work like crazy to get it to work as smoothly as it does... no more 3d > > > from us until things improve. > > > > > On Mar 17, 10:26 am, MobDev <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > hehe, > > > > another music app developer here, with no decent streaming app > > > > possibilities :( > > > > It's nice to have a MediaPlayer which streams MP3, but thats way way > > > > too limited.. > > > > I want it to be compatible with AAC to begin with (because of the > > > > bandwidth), and I definitely would want more control (and maybe > > > > somewhat lessi nterfaces??)... > > > > I mean you are saying it was an advanced platform in 2008, but what > > > > you want to say that it hasn't evolved since 2004, since J2ME MIDP... > > > > A class like MediaPlayer is actually based on that one (which is old > > > > and has never been updated nor up par) with the same functionality ! > > > > Even worse actually, the SE devices had a better MediaPlayer > > > > implementation 4 years ago... > > > > My personal experience, after working in J2ME and objective C, has > > > > been of utter dissapointment... > > > > > > On 17 mrt, 15:23, Gabriel Simões <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I do agree with you that the Apple app publishing restriction is > > > > > pushing developpers too far, far enough to see some great > developers > > > > > give the plataform up not for technical reasons, but for their > > > > > principles. > > > > > > > On the other side, as a music app developer I don´t know how you > are > > > > > happy with Android. > > > > > First, a lot of developers (including me) can´t even figure out how > to > > > > > acquire audio streams from AudioRecord and play them using > AudioTrack > > > > > without problems such audio chopping, sample rate differences, > > > > > distortion, ... (see how many posts without solutions we have here > on > > > > > this group). We can´t syncronize audio input and ouput, or audio > > > > > output and video, so it gets hard to develop apps that need to > handle > > > > > those events precisely, such as samplers, music games, music makers > > > > > based on gestures, etc. > > > > > We don´t have a low latency audio interface to access (ALSA would > be > > > > > great and it´s already working on Android ... but we can´t access > it), > > > > > so give up virtual instruments and low latency audio apps (small > > > > > buffers aren´t available too). We don´t have native audio > interfaces > > > > > officially supported by Google and AudioRecord (at least running on > > > > > the emulator) warns buffer overflows if you just receive audio from > it > > > > > and play using AudioTrack on the same thread, it doesn´t matter > which > > > > > buffer sizes you use. > > > > > > > The behavior of the apps running on different devices is > unpredictable > > > > > while on iPhone, since the archtecture and hardware is a lot more > > > > > closely related on different devices and thought to be compatible, > it > > > > > ´s a lot easier to predict, test and publish apps that you know > that > > > > > will run as great as you intended them to be. On Android this is > not > > > > > something up to the developers to do, but to Google and the device > > > > > developers that should garantee compatibility with the OS and what > > > > > runs on top of it. > > > > > > > I´m working on Android mostly because of Apple´s restrictions on > it´s > > > > > plataform, on publication, on development, on resources usage... > But > > > > > yes, I think Android still needs to play ball, and play a lot to > catch > > > > > iPhone + IphoneOS. And I hope it doest it! > > > > > > > On 17 mar, 10:04, niko20 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > First off I like to write music apps, so I keep an eye on the > music > > > > > > apps that are out for iPhone. > > > > > > > > Two of these really popular apps are BeatMaker and Noise.IO. > > > Beatmaker > > > > > > is a sample driven sequencer MPC style, and Noise.IO is a full > > > > > > featured FM synth. > > > > > > > > I read something disturbing in the app info yesterday that shows > just > > > > > > how much power Apple has over developers. > > > > > > > > In the past Beatmaker and Noise.IO had formed a way to share data > - > > > > > > the ability to export a synth sound out of Noise.IO and import it > > > into > > > > > > Beatmaker. It looks like Apple now "forced" them to change how > this > > > > > > sharing works - in fact so much so that currently the export > feature > > > > > > in Noise.IO is GONE! And the lastest reviewers of the app aren't > > > happy > > > > > > about it LOL. And the Beatmaker app indicates that import is gone > in > > > > > > the current update. Imagine LOSING functionality in an update! > > > > > > Wouldn't that piss off a customer! Anyway the Beatmaker page > mentions > > > > > > something about having to switch over to Apple's copy/paste > > > > > > functionality instead of the way they were using before, and that > > > this > > > > > > was requested by Apple. > > > > > > > > So that makes me feel much better about Android, I think it sucks > > > when > > > > > > a product that has been out for a long while already, and now > Apple > > > > > > comes in and bullies the developers to break their software > basically > > > > > > for no good reason except they want some control over how stuff > is > > > > > > done. How obnoxious. > > > > > > > > Also, I dont see how Apple is so "groundbreaking". I was looking > up > > > > > > specs on the iPhone OS 3.0 yesterday, and it didn't come out > until > > > > > > June/July 2009, this is when it finally got copy/paste, MMS, and > Push > > > > > > notifications. By the way Push notifications are where an app can > get > > > > > > notified to start when it receives some data, even though the app > > > > > > isn't "running". Well, Android was well along the way already > back in > > > > > > 2008 and it had Widgets and Intents, which do this already. Push > > > > > > notification is just a widget with an intent basically, and it > came > > > > > > out much later. > > > > > > > > I am not an Android Fanboy or an Apple fanboy, I always figure > > > whoever > > > > > > has the best tech wins in the end, I am writing Android apps and > I > > > > > > usually compare Apple apps to what I'm doing so I can see if such > a > > > > > > thing is possible at all processor speed wise, etc. I found that > the > > > > > > original iPhone processor was actually only running at 412Mhz or > so, > > > > > > and still has some good music apps, so that gives me a bit of > info on > > > > > > how those apps are written then. iPhone has objective C and can > > > > > > compile to native code, but Android has NDK and you can also use > > > > > > native code, so I should be able to still write comparable apps > > > > > > processing power wise. > > > > > > > > So reading some of this info made me start to see how Android is > > > > > > really ahead of the game in a lot of ways. Back in 2008 it > already > > > had > > > > > > copy/paste, MMS messaging, and widgets and intents long before > iPhone > > > > > > OS 3.0..The hardware such as the touch screens still isn't as > > > accurate > > > > > > or as good, but the OS it pretty darn good, and it's nice not to > have > > > > > > big brother over your shoulder everytime you write an app. > > > > > > > > -niko > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups "Android Developers" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > ... > > > > read more » > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Android Developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<android-developers%[email protected]> > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. 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