I agree a 100% with Robert (and i didn't know i was actually of any help ever :p). I found that actually relying on 3rd party libraries is often times not beneficial. It's perfect to quasi out source tasks like loading models, basic collision and intersection testing and so on to a 3rd party library. But most of those libraries also impose some sort of scene graph API on you, which frankly is most often an extreme overhead. The resulting scene graphs are also mostly flat in games so there's no real benefit using them.
Apart from the books Robert mention there is also quiet a lot of information on the web. Here's a couple of links: - http://www.flipcode.com this is the archive of the former flipcode side. May it rest in piece, it was one of the most helpful resources back when i started game programming - http://www.gamedev.net/reference/ also an immensely helpful resource. Not all of the articles there are of high quality but you're able to find quiet a large number of gems in there - http://www.gamasutra.com/category/programming/, as of late there haven't been many interesting programming related articles there, but if you dig deep enough in the archives you will find treasures. This of course only scratches the surface but should suffice for almost all your initial needs. And don't be afraid to look at really old stuff from the 90ies. It's there where you will find the most valuable information actually. On 18 Mrz., 17:52, Robert Green <rbgrn....@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you for the compliment. > > I was intimidated by the math at first but it keeps getting easier and > easier the more I do. I've also met people like Mario Zechner who is > very knowledgeable and helpful. Just yesterday I was writing > something and it wasn't working right. We talked, he mentioned a > different way to do it, I changed my code and it worked perfectly. My > point is, just having people to talk to that are doing the same thing > as you is a really great thing and helps a lot in keeping moving > along. > > Also there are books that clearly outline just about everything you > could ever need to know: > > Real Time Collision Detection (Christer Ericson) is the most > comprehensive suite of code examples I've seen. A must-have for any > game dev. > Programming Game AI by Example (Mat Buckland) is a really good > overview of how to design effective AI > Game Physics Engine Development (Ian Millington) has everything you > could ever want for writing a 2d or 3d physics game > 3D Math Primer for Graphics and Game Development (Feltcher Dunn et al) > is great at teaching 3D math concepts (better than math for 3d game > programming and computer graphics IMO) > OpenGL Superbible (blue book) contains a huge coverage of how to > program for GL. There are also different colored books that are > basically the authority on any other GL-related topic. > > The thing is, people think that using an engine means they don't have > to learn certain things, like low-level rendering and math. The fact > of the matter is that games are math and it is just inherent in them. > It's like saying you don't need to know basic geometry as an architect > because you can just use Autocad to do your dirty work. Clearly that > won't work, you'll need to be able to make calculated designs. No > engine does absolutely everything you want out of the box. To add a > unique feature to a game, you'll need to know how to write that exact > code, and chances are that if it does anything cool at all, there will > be some math involved. > > Fortunately, if you have the right resources (people, books, pen, > paper and a calculator) you'll be able to figure it out and get it > working correctly :) I say just dive in head first. Learn as you > need to. I think that's what lots of us have done. > > As far as art goes - I've only found one way to deal with that. Find > a good artist! I'm working with a guy who was willing to partner up > for a percentage of the game's revenue. He's turned out to be a great > 3D artist and so it really worked out well. Everyone involved in > making a game needs to have passion to do it. It's hard and takes a > lot of time and patience. > > I think it's awesome that you are thinking about doing it. Feel free > to email me with questions along the way. Also, check and see if > there is an IGDA chapter in your area. That's where I met several > very talented people. We have a meeting tonight, in fact! > > On Mar 18, 9:40 am, Kevin Duffey <andjar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I agree full heartedly Robert. I can't imagine EA spending a few hundred > > grand on a game for mobile, knowing that they likely won't recoup the > > costs.. unless it's just a brand recognition thing and an exepected loss. I > > am well aware of the costs for large scale games, have a few friends in the > > business working for EA, Blizzard, etc. I've wanted to break into the gaming > > business for a looong time. I am just not so good with all that extensive > > math involved in the bigger games. That is why kits like Rokon are really > > interesting to me, might give me a chance to build some decent games and > > focus less on the stuff I don't know much about and more on the game itself. > > I hope anyway. Couple other kits were mentioned in a different thread that > > sound promising. > > > I am looking to just learn, have some fun, and possibly make a little money, > > but not holding my breath to do so. My kids are always telling me about this > > pokemon like fantasy world they've invented, thought it would be really fun > > to do something like that for them so they could show their friends. > > > I don't know if Android has enough of any one type of game or app to be over > > that hill where you absolutely must be at the top to succeed.. there is only > > room for a few there and it would seem to me that the chances your app will > > make it are so slim, it's not worth the effort. Hence, making games or apps > > for yourself or in your spare time are a better effort to me than trying to > > make a living. I can see where contracting out to do apps for specific > > companies, like banks, warehouses, etc could be profitable tho... although I > > have no clue how to market myself to get such gigs. lol. > > > It is pretty impressive how one developer can write a game, the aI, > > collision detection, physics, music/sound fx, and more in a couple months > > time tho. I commend you and the others that can do that. I am stuck on how > > to do graphics as well. I can't pay anyone to do art, so I think I am going > > to have to digitize stick figures. > > > On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Robert Green <rbgrn....@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Kevin, > > > > First of all, let me clarify some numbers: > > > > Your average EA game costs a lot more than 10s of thousands of > > > dollars. I bet no iphone port of any game cost them less than 100k to > > > do. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent 100k-500k on an iphone > > > version of an existing title. They deal with games that go into the > > > millions in development cost. How much does it cost to pay a staff of > > > 25 for 9 months to develop something? Even at a modest 50k per person > > > (which is reasonable for a junior level artist dying to make game art) > > > you're looking at around a million dollars. That's a normal size > > > staff and a very conservative timeline for a big title. They're also > > > difficult to compete with because of that. It's harder for us to put > > > together content that people won't scoff at. Just the other day I got > > > a comment saying that one of my games looks like it took 2 weeks to > > > make. That's after 6 months of development. How much is 6 months of > > > your time worth? At my last job, that would be around 50k. One could > > > say that the true cost of developing that game was then 50k. I won't > > > recoup those costs, but I think that over the course of releasing my > > > next few games which are far nicer than anything I've ever done before > > > (partially due to my experience from working on past games and the new > > > artist I work with) I think I'll get far better returns on future time > > > invested. > > > > Also, being at the top of the market helps a ton. It can really make > > > a game, but take, for instance, Polarbit's last few games. They got > > > the market late and STILL nailed it (relatively speaking). It's the > > > games themselves... They brought a handful of high quality 3D games to > > > a platform with very few, and people took notice. > > > > People (myself included sometimes) complain about how unfair the > > > mobile markets are. It's true to a degree, but when I see good apps > > > and good games make breakthroughs, it reminds me that it's still > > > really about the well executed idea getting strong word of mouth > > > recommendations and making it. It still works that way. The problem > > > is that as the market gets more and more apps and games, you have to > > > make a bigger splash to get noticed, which takes more people and more > > > time to do. It's at that point that people complain that the gold > > > rush is over. I think that anyone who is here for a gold rush ought > > > to just pack up there bags and head somewhere else now because I can > > > only see those who are truly into what they do succeeding in markets > > > like this. We'll see people succeed and act like they are lucky but > > > they really aren't. Maybe they got some luck along the way but much > > > of what makes people successful is a genuinely well executed, good > > > idea. > > > > Build truly great products for an audience who actually needs or would > > > really enjoy them and you'll do ok. > > > > On Mar 17, 10:54 pm, Kevin Duffey <andjar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I too am interested in how developers make money off of games... and > > > other > > > > than the usual sell for .99 or ads in the game. By this I mean, unless > > > your > > > > game is shown on the android market near the top, how do you either > > > > avoid > > > > your game going further down the list so as to most likely never be > > > > found > > > by > > > > most people searching? I think that's the kiss of death, as some others > > > have > > > > written about from time to time. When iPhone first opened it's store, it > > > was > > > > ripe for new apps to make good money. Now, it seems very few apps make > > > good > > > > money, enough to run a business around. I am amazed at companies like EA > > > and > > > > even smaller ones that put a few games up each year... it must cost 10s > > > of > > > > thousands in development dollars to make those games, and at a couple > > > bucks > > > > a pop, I wonder if they ever recoup their costs, much less profit. > > > > > I see games even on Android with over 250,000 downloads, but how much of > > > > that is turned into money for the developer. At $3 a pop, some of the > > > > defense games are really good, provides hours of fun, and worth $3, but > > > > I > > > > wonder if they've actually made $750,000 with their 250,000+ downloads.. > > > or > > > > if about 95% of that is downloads then returns a day later to avoid the > > > > costs. > > > > > I am also very interested in how many end users (not developers) > > > > actually > > > go > > > > thru the trouble of setting up an account to pay for things. I still do > > > not > > > > understand for the life of me why google (and even iPhone) did NOT make > > > this > > > > charge directly to the carrier bill. It's a clear way to make it super > > > easy > > > > to get people to pay more frequently. I would actually buy $1 apps, many > > > of > > > > them, if I could just simply be charged on my phone bill each month and > > > not > > > > have the hassle of > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Developers" group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
