Dont you think that the big issue here is a base problem?:

We are talking about a real time system (in most functions) and the
current architecture dont behave accordingly. Appart from java.

On 7 abr, 17:25, Sean Hodges <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hey Tim,
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Tim <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The programs are written in Java, compiled to a bytecode that is
> > primarily used to represent Java source, and executed on a virtual
> > machine that is primarily intended to execute these Java programs.
>
> Primarily used to represent a Java program in an instruction set
> designed for efficient execution by a VM, not to represent Java
> source. I was pointing out that the Java language is not interpreted
> in the VM, is that what you are disagreeing with?
>
> > Only a pedant would say 'Android is not Java', not that that even
> > makes sense - Android is the OS not the VM/language.
>
> Sorry, did I do something to you to deserve the name calling? Thanks
> for pointing out the terminology slip, I did not mean to insinuate
> that.
>
> > Google it (and remember Dalvik is currently JIT-less).
> > There's some debate about whether JIT'ed Java is as fast as C, but in
> > most cases it isn't (good microbenchmark website:
> >http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all〈=jav...
> > )
>
> It's funny, only today I was talking to a colleague about how people
> often use the Shootout tests and Google Trends to make their point
> about language performance. Please read the caveats on the Shootout
> test suite, particularly the comparison 
> section:http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/flawed-benchmarks.php#comparison. As
> a rule of thumb, you shouldn't use the shootout suite to generalise on
> performance differences.
>
> All the same, I do agree that on average, C and it's derivatives
> out-perform Java (particularly without JIT) on a good number of
> benchmarks. What I don't want to do is get pulled into a low-level
> benchmarking argument (perhaps it's too late?) as we are talking about
> significant responsiveness issues on the UI, not evaluating a
> controlled Fibonacci test between the 2 platforms.
>
> > Either way, Dalvik doesn't have a JIT compiler so it is *much* slower
> > than native code. Additionally it uses a 'stop the world' garbage
> > collector which periodically freezes the UI for around 0.1-0.2
> > seconds. That causes little hiccups.
>
> The "stop the world" garbage collection is an interesting point to
> make. I've heard it before, and at the time I saw a response from
> Dianne Hackborn that stated that the GC of one app does not affect the
> functioning of another in normal handset operation. However, right now
> I can't find that email, so I won't argue the point :)
>
> It would be interesting to see any bugs logged for this particular GC
> issue. I do know that when I execute a background Service that
> deliberately triggers the GC regularly, that service responds slowly
> but my Home app continues to function properly. It is not a scientific
> test, but I think it makes the "stop the world" scenario more subtle
> than you suggest.
>
> > So the following are reasons that contribute to Android being much
> > less responsive than the iPhone, in order of how much I'd guess they
> > affect things:
>
> > 1. Interpreted code rather than compiled.
> > 2. Stop-the-world garbage collector.
> > 3. Lack of hardware OpenGL accelleration for the UI (afaik, maybe this
> > has changed in the latest versions?)
> > 4. Background apps.
> > 5. Maybe the UI thread isn't given high enough priority?
>
> Some of those have question marks against them, so perhaps you should
> say "the following are the reasons I think contribute to Android being
> much less responsive than the iPhone". I won't argue any of them as
> potential factors (most significantly, your first point does not
> mention "Java code", which makes it valid), but I would say that there
> is a lot more going on than your list above. I personally think my
> list is a bit more concise, but then I did write it :)
>
>
>
> > By the way, I think the whole "You have to make sure you don't
> > allocate too many objects, e.g. strings in loops" kind of cancels out
> > the "Java is great, you don't need to worry about memory management!"
>
> Couldn't agree with you more, and of course every good programmer
> (Java or otherwise) knows this. The problem is there are a lot of bad
> programmers out there, and they propagate the myth.

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