Interesting points you mention. I do have my old G1 but it really did leave a sour taste in my mouth. They keyboard was great but I really wanted to use the onscreen input. Plus I don't remember being able to upgrade the OS to 2.0 last I used it. I got done with T-Mobile and just cancelled.
I see your point about cheaper to get into, however, I'm thinking about additional costs now on top of the costs paid. As I said I'm happy to get $300/year I would be estatic it would justify my hobby to the wife, and recoup some expenses. So I'm not looking at the next major application, just development. Your ideal sounds good about eBay I forgot about that. Is there that much divergence in hardware that getting one over the other you mentioned would prove unbeneficial I begin developing and realize that another phone really had what I wanted or worst yet needed. Which is a dumb question because I can Google and research. I've been researching new developments between Droid that I knew and today and was wondering if there was any sort of WYSIWIG builder yes I know I can build it by hand but with Eclipse at work I'm used to visual editor and Instantiations. I remember DroidDraw but was hoping there would be a more 'polished' in house tool released by now. I'm trying to think as a developer but I'm a developer on a budget. I don't have the capital to spend on new stuff I make a decent income, but I have to justify development to the wife as my other hobbies (mountain biking, computers, game systems) are just as expensive, but I don't know why she doesn't realize this one at least brings some money back in. I'm interested in the developer lab. Like I said I would like to play with the device just to see its capabilities now. I heard a little about Google 'seeding' but I thought it was mostly to their high end developers the ones with clout. That was why I was posing this question as an indie. Asking what about indie one man shops? I really do wish I can push 'cost' out of the equation for me but it really is a factor. Last I read Iphone OS4 was only taking away multitasking from anything 3GS and before but I could be wrong. I'm wrapped up in getting 2 more apps to 'waiting for approval' phase. I really hope they do run more of these developer labs soon. I'm on the fence about investing in another platform. The reason I mention the appstore is you're right it does take a lot to get noticed but they do have the numbers. Its like music, I read this analogy somewhere, you goto the music store and you see bands on CDs you never would've imagined got record deals, but the reason they are on there is because music is liked by a lot of people a bigger market so even if you only capture .01% of the market out of 1000000 people that's a lot especially for the amount of money I would consider successful. Sam On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 2:37 PM, String <[email protected]> wrote: > As a standalone developer, I see Android as being far more favorable > to indies than iPhone is. I develop for both, but I don't work for > anyone but myself. And I know which one I like better. > > First, Android's upfront cost is far lower. You can use any computer > you like, there's no annual fee (as in $99 to Apple), and you have far > more flexibility on phone hardware. This may be less obvious to > someone like you who's already invested in the Apple side, but viewed > objectively, Android is a LOT cheaper to get into. > > As for handset costs, stop thinking like a phone user and start > thinking like a developer. Don't buy into carrier contracts for your > dev handsets, and if you can't justify the cost of a new & unlocked > phone, then don't go that route. Ebay is your friend; pick up a used > Hero or MyTouch 3G and use it on WiFi. Except for work which > SPECIFICALLY requires cell coverage, that will be more than > sufficient. Or, what happened to your old G1? > > And when your iPhone's contract is up, don't lock into a new one. In > the long run, contract-free is cheaper. > > Moving on from cost, I would say that Android offers far more > opportunities for indie devs. Because the marketplace is an order of > magnitude smaller, there are a LOT of niches which are either > underserved or downright empty. In the iPhone App Store, OTOH, it's a > much harder battle to find and hold a customer base, because so many > more devs are fighting for a piece of every pie. > > Platform fragmentation? Don't believe the hype. Most apps run just > fine across most Android versions, and when problems arise, they tend > to be minimal and the tools to solve them are there for you. The only > exception is if you want to use features released in the latest > version; these will unavoidably lock out earlier versions, but that's > always the way. Besides, looks like iPhone OS 4.0 is going to leave a > lot of older phones behind too. > > Finally, I really think Google is more interested in small devs than > Apple is. Look at these forums - Googlers regularly contribute. Check > out the Android Developer Competitions - run by Google, mostly won by > indies. Look up "device seeding program" - that's Google giving out > top-shelf phones to thousands of developers. When's the last time > Apple did that? Google has also run a series of Android Developer Labs > where any Joe Dev can get their hands on a range of devices. These > seem to be in hiatus right at the moment, but they will likely start > up again. > > Bottom line, do you want to stay locked into Apple's dictatorial > regime? Or would you like to join a community where developers are > treated like adults? > > String > > On Apr 20, 8:35 pm, Totalgeek <[email protected]> wrote: >> Getting in on a shoestring budget with Android development and wooing >> hobbyist developers seems hard. >> >> I come from an Iphone development background. I develop mostly free to >> small applications. I'm interested in developing for the Google >> Android, but I'm interested in poising this question to the group. For >> someone like me, I'm going to say small->hobby developer, is cross- >> platform mobile development out of the question? Please read on as I'm >> thoroughly interested in exploring this subject matter. Bit of a >> background I have a job, java programmer so I already see that I maybe >> able to re-use my existing skill set, and develop mobile applications >> on the side. I'm relatively new to the field but I was impressed with >> how the Iphone's on screen keyboard worked. I was one of the first >> TMobile G1 adapters and liked it for quite some time until I got my >> hands on an Iphone, I believed you always needed a keyboard of sorts >> but the Iphone put that to rest for me. I would like to move back to >> Android, I just didn't feel it with the G1 and it left a bad taste in >> my mouth. But some of the new spec'd devices look great and would like >> to love the Android like I do with other Google products. >> >> I'm interested in doing cross platform development. I'm not rich nor a >> big company, is there room for someone like me to get onto the Android >> development wagon? Or, is all this hoopla targeted towards the big >> development houses? one thing I thought with mobile computing is that >> it leveled the playing field, but as more and more big development >> houses come on board our chances of success as an indie developer >> pretty much goes to nil. There is no way I can compete with the big >> houses on development or marketing budgets. But my biggest cost to >> entry and I see this for other developers is Apple has time and a >> large amount of "invested" Iphone developers. >> >> What I mean by invested is in order to get started, let's take the >> minimum legitimate route you require a Mac thats $599 minimum only if >> you have a compatible monitor,mouse, and keyboard for the Mac Mini. >> The $99 yearly membership fee for the Iphone development program. Then >> books and/or classes, I got by with 2 books. On top of that the cost >> of an Iphone and its monthly associated cell bill. You can see the >> typical person already is invested $1000+. This is nothing to big >> house development companies but for us small time to hobby developers >> (I would be happy to make $1 to $2 a day) developing on 2 platforms is >> not cost prohibitive. >> >> This question is how willing is the Android platform willing to bring >> over Iphone developers or does the platform care about us small time >> developers? I'm thinking the answer is No, from my years in working in >> the industry its always been the cliche of 'if you can't afford to >> play, don't play'. But isn't it viable to think that the more >> developers Android can garner the better it will be in terms of apps >> and user satisifaction? >> >> Below are some comparison and I'm asking for a fair, well thought out >> rebuttal: >> >> -Hardware with Iphone you do deal with its 'generations' but for most >> of the matter they're pretty close together and the OS releases >> matches the hardware. How is the Android? I had a gripe with G1 when >> they released the next model soon afterwards and it had Droid 2 and >> some other hardware improvements I felt punished for being an early >> adopter. This also brings up another topic of forked, or different >> variations, of hardware. What hardware do you target? Phones don't >> give you an easy way to upgrade. If I were in contract and I wanted to >> move my development efforts to Android I would be forced to pay the >> ETF if I wanted to get an Android phone or pay 2 bills at once. As I >> said, I'm small time and can not justify that cost to my wife. >> >> -Itunes this gives great visiblity. I don't know if anything has >> changed with the G1 days. But visiblity was poor for me because I >> would scroll a couple screens, try and do a search, but would just >> leave. With Itunes you see apps on your computer, navigation on the >> computer is so much easier, you select a program and send it to your >> Iphone. Does Android, or Google, now have this type of application >> market or someway of making applications visibile even if for some >> time? This is a great way for the small development companies, or >> hobbyist to get exposure. Because we all eventually end up on the >> front page of Itunes, not for most downloaded, but when initially >> deployed. >> >> -For me its not a problem because I can leverage my existing JAVA >> skills. I program in JAVA everyday. However, I have taken the time and >> money to invest in learning how to program the Iphone. Now that I have >> made that investment, and its nowhere paid off, from my endeavor. How >> do I justify the cost and time of learning to program for the Android? >> If my development efforts make $300 a year I would consider it a >> success because its a hobby, and it somewhat negates some of my phone >> bill and other costs. But that no where nearly gives me enough money >> to justify going multiplatform. I think thats what Apple has with it >> being on the market longer it was able to garner a huge developer >> community. Now made up of hobbyist and small time companies. How does >> Android win us over? Or, what is the argument that Android makes to >> bring us over? >> >> I don't know how much the Android platform has changed. I wish GOOGLE >> had a developer open house or something where we small time developers >> can get our hands on an Android to either play with it, without being >> committed to a monthly payment, and to learn about its feature set. I >> would participate in that program as I would love for GOOGLE to prove >> to me of what the phone is capable of doing. Nowadays its a short time >> you can spend with the phone (7 days) and return it if it doesn't work >> out for you. 7 days is no where near as long as it would take to flesh >> out if you have the grasp of the language, nor to really grasp the >> capability of the device you have in your hands. Maybe being able to >> buy the device and just use it via Wi-Fi, but then you can't test it >> for applications in locations that requires 2/3G access. But getting >> to feel the device and work with its SDK would be a huge boon to >> determine if I should move over. I know alot of you are thinking >> 'develop on the simulator' its not the same. Sometimes a bug doesn't >> show up until you actually have it on a device, and I can't afford >> several devices. It would be great if GOOGLE had a presentation in >> their headquarters it would be awe inspiring. I would drive up for >> that and maybe give attendees a hands on with the ANDROID platform for >> the day, but then my argument of not enough time. >> >> And that's where my point lies, is most of the developers, ones I know >> of, don't work in big software houses. We are small time hobbyist that >> probably doesn't even show up as a blip to Google or Apple. I believe >> once their are droves of developers move to the Android, I like what >> it stands for, and the ease of programming for it from what I hear. >> GOOGLE has a long road ahead of them I don't know how they'll approach >> it or if they even care about us small timers, but I do hope my >> arguments make sense and that someone at Google is devising a way to >> reach all developers. >> >> The mobile platform is a hard market. And with Apple having time, end >> users have invested some monies in apps and music, that it maybe hard >> for the end user to switch as well. Maybe GOOGLE has some sort of >> trade in program I'm not aware of, or an easy entrance developer >> program. I know the SDK is free but the cost of non-subsidized phones >> are just huge. There are a lot of developers out there but I think a >> majority of them fall into the hobbyist to small companies. Don't get >> me wrong if I can get a job being a mobile developer that would be >> great! I would happily jump ship as I can justify getting another >> phone to develop on. >> >> Any thoughts? Anyone know what GOOGLE is cooking up? Do they care >> about the small developers or is it the big companies they're looking >> to attract. It would be great if GOOGLE did a case study or switch on >> how a former Iphone developer is now a Android developer, and maybe >> state all the great things google did to help them make that switch. >> Perhaps a video or series of videos comparing development on one >> spectrum to the other. Until mobile development becomes cheaper I fear >> that my only recourse as a small time developer is to stay with a >> platform I've already invested in. >> >> Feel free to post or email me, would love to hear clear headed >> rebuttal or addition to my argument on the subject. I really do wish I >> can see what all the hoopla is about and go out and get Android >> powered device, but being a hobbyist I feel that I'm shut out and >> there is no way I can make the transition. I know we live in a money >> driven society so basically I'm weeded out for not being with a big >> company,successful, or having money and I'm ok with that but I do >> think a large amount of developers are the small to one man shops. >> >> Sam >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Android Discuss" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Android Discuss" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > -- Sam C -- [email protected] -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Discuss" group. 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