From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:45 PM To: Digest Recipients Subject: [android-discuss] Digest for [email protected] - 17 Messages in 6 Topics Today's Topic Summary Group: <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/topics> http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/topics § My least favorite Five Star feedback. [1 Update] § Time to raise app prices? [11 Updates] § My new favorite customer feedback [2 Updates] § hire android developer at Low costs from Arthisoft [1 Update] § Device Administration: Remote Wipe and Remote Lock [1 Update] § Device-To-Device Push Framework for Android [1 Update] <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/a63ee06335a25fd> My least favorite Five Star feedback. Nathan <[email protected]> Feb 17 10:38AM -0800 ***** Great no exp demo crack! Have been using the demo for 5 weeks now great ... love it wont buy the pro ver because have so many things set Love it glat i got a good non updateable verson that never will expire! ---- Love the app so much you are willing to cheat, huh? And brag about it publicly to encourage others to do so? Yes, I've marked it as spam so the market can ignore me. I don't know anything else to do and I don't want to call too much attention to it. Nathan <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/955fcdb2a11c3b29> Time to raise app prices? Brian Conrad <[email protected]> Feb 16 12:47PM -0800 On 02/16/2012 12:22 PM, Tim Mensch wrote: > for that amount. You can also imagine it doesn't take too many > "whales" to raise the average spent per user. > Tim Since I do contract game work on other platforms and some coming on Android I heard many complaints from existing game publishers about figuring out what to do with a 99 cent market. That's why "casual games" have become popular there. Most are more idea than code and if you have some nice graphics will entice people to buy. For non game niche apps I always found it was best to tip-toe into the market. I have people who email me and say they are will to pay quite a bit more for more features, i.e. $30 to $50. I want to see more interest but that is building in the field as more people get Android devices. And I still have people wanting me to do iPhone and Windows Mobile. I had a Windows Mobile product but I could not guarantee that it would continue to work with newer phones and in fact it doesn't completely. Another solution to adding features was a smorgasbord approach where users could chose what addons they wanted to work with the base app. And I still have a Windows app selling at $50 that is way overdue for a 2.0 upgrade. As for pricing this is a very good article on pricing software though it doesn't discuss pricing in a recession when inflation takes off (though it sort does indirectly): http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.html There are, however, a number of articles to be found on the Internet about strategies during a recession and when inflation sets in. Jeffrey Kesselman <[email protected]> Feb 16 04:10PM -0500 > time in the top five grossing APPs (not just games) on iOS for the past six > months or so. And it's not even in the top 20 downloads on iOS. It's just > that it monetizes SO well that it's pulling in a ton of money. So, thats one data point out of how many? And its a known outlier as you yourself say its the one of the top grossing apps. So basing your economics on its income is a lot like basing your expectation of a lottery ticket on the Jackpot amount. What you really need to asses income value is a distribution of the income of a significant sized random sample across the entire space. Tim Mensch <[email protected]> Feb 16 02:25PM -0700 On 2/16/2012 2:10 PM, Jeffrey Kesselman wrote: > So, thats one data point out of how many? And its a known outlier as > you yourself say its the one of the top grossing apps. Yes, it's an outlier. > So basing your economics on its income is a lot like basing your > expectation of a lottery ticket on the Jackpot amount. It's not nearly that bad, but no, I wouldn't EXPECT to be the top game. That would just be silly. > What you really need to asses income value is a distribution of the > income of a significant sized random sample across the entire space. You don't need to know across the entire space. You just need to know across the range of DECENT apps; there's a lot of crap in the long tail, which is why the averages across the entire space end up looking so bad. I've seen numbers like $600 of income average over the life of a game app, but my app, with no promotion, made much more than that per month, and it was growing nicely until I decided to be impatient and signed on to a publisher. But it's never been my strategy to hit the jackpot as much as to produce multiple games that each provide a revenue stream. Tim Jeffrey Kesselman <[email protected]> Feb 16 04:31PM -0500 Pardon my cynicism... but I've been tracking consumer behavior in one way or another for about 25 years and there is an inherent assumption in this statement that flies in the face of all the data points I ha e. Namely that quality of product leads to mass market success. The market abounds with examples of where that just isn't true. (Windows, VHS tape, most Zynga games... the list is endless.) -- It's always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue. Jeffrey Kesselman <[email protected]> Feb 16 04:38PM -0500 And while we are on the subject of Zynga... its worth nothing that in mobile you CANT do what Zynga does on the web. Zynga is a sales and marketing company. Their genius was in realizing that they could get constant real-time metrics on the behavior of their entire audience. They use this to very cynically shape that behavior to drive it to th behaviors they want (recruitment and sales.) Although the mobile device can access the network, you cant hold you user's net connection up and pump data back to your home-base on every click and gesture like Zynga does. You would run your user's data bill way up and they'd scream about privacy and call you "malware." -- It's always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue. Nathan <[email protected]> Feb 16 02:35PM -0800 > What you really need to asses income value is a distribution of the income > of a significant sized random sample across the entire space. Well, I doubt you are going to get that data, but post it here if you do. Do you have enough data to dismiss the freemium model as a waste of time? Are you of the opinion that one should not do something unless they can calculate a statistically sound probable income from it? >Namely that quality of product leads to mass market success. The market >abounds with examples of where that just isn't true. (Windows, VHS tape, >most Zynga games... the list is endless.) Yes, those are interesting examples, but Are you really saying that one should release as many apps as possible without doing any testing or debugging? I doubt it. There is a long tail for apps in terms of downloads. That's a fact. Like Tim, I believe the long tail is positively correlated with low quality. Now, there could be some high quality stuff there that is limited by the person's grammar, spelling, marketing ability, or motivation. No, I don't have statistical proof of that. Do you have statistical proof that it isn't true . Now are the highest grossing apps necessarily the highest quality? No. But ones that are crashing 60% of the time aren't going to even be contending for the top or midrange spots. Nathan Tim Mensch <[email protected]> Feb 16 03:46PM -0700 On 2/16/2012 2:31 PM, Jeffrey Kesselman wrote: > (Windows, VHS tape, most Zynga games... the list is endless.) Those all suffer from "network effects." The more people who use the successful product, the more valuable that product is. I'm not doing Zynga-style social games. Sure there's a "tell your friend!" factor in the marketing of any game, but Zynga lives and breathes the viral-optimization angle. And as you point out, they've hit a wall. And other companies are dropping like flies out of the "Facebook game" ecosystem at this point. I made my assumptions, and my game bore them out. Proof of nothing. But I'm going to keep moving forward with my plan, at least for now. Tim Jeffrey Kesselman <[email protected]> Feb 16 05:52PM -0500 > Well, I doubt you are going to get that data, but post it here if you > do. Do you have enough data to dismiss the freemium model as a waste > of time? I dont have the data to show that shredding your code and throwing it from the rooftops isn't a business model ,either. Thats a negation fallacy. Something is not true just because you don't have the information to prove it false. What it is a gigantic unknown risk. Risk management is the #1 job of all real game developers. Ask a few game producer if you don't believe me. > Are you of the opinion that one should not do something unless they > can calculate a statistically sound probable income from it? See the above. And yes, one should not go into a business where they have no idea of what the risks are, how bad they are, or what to do about them. Thats called "gambling", not business. > Are you really saying that one should release as many apps as possible > without doing any testing or debugging? I doubt it. Zynga has made a much touted business of it. They do no testing, in fact they don't even consider a mal-feature a "bug" unless it is driving customers away from their behaviour goals. I have this from senior Zynga people. , I believe the long tail is positively correlated with low > motivation. > No, I don't have statistical proof of that. Do you have statistical > proof that it isn't true . You realize that you have just made a religious argument? "I am going to act as if this is true because I wish it to be true and don't have proof it is false." Good way to run a religion. bad way to run a business. [email protected] Feb 16 11:18PM If you are making enough money to make your time worthwhile, then that's a business and congrats. I hope it continues and/or you get far enough ahead of the game to cover yourself when it stops. Fact of the matter though is that we still have no idea whether you are typical, very lucky, or very unlucky. And one or two datapoints, even if you shared you data, cannot begin to tell us fundemental things like the total adressable market size. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Tim Mensch <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 15:46:31 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [android-discuss] Time to raise app prices? On 2/16/2012 2:31 PM, Jeffrey Kesselman wrote: > (Windows, VHS tape, most Zynga games... the list is endless.) Those all suffer from "network effects." The more people who use the successful product, the more valuable that product is. I'm not doing Zynga-style social games. Sure there's a "tell your friend!" factor in the marketing of any game, but Zynga lives and breathes the viral-optimization angle. And as you point out, they've hit a wall. And other companies are dropping like flies out of the "Facebook game" ecosystem at this point. I made my assumptions, and my game bore them out. Proof of nothing. But I'm going to keep moving forward with my plan, at least for now. Tim -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. Nathan <[email protected]> Feb 16 04:18PM -0800 > it false. > What it is a gigantic unknown risk. Risk management is the #1 job of all > real game developers. Ask a few game producer if you don't believe me. Well, we probably don't disagree on much. I don't think either one of us has proof. I'm just making the point that the data you want is probably not available and probably won't be. Google has all the data you want but is unlikely to share it. They have recommended the freemium model. The risks of that assessment involve whatever bias they have. Flurry *might* have the data you are seeking. They recommend the freemium model. > See the above. And yes, one should not go into a business where they have > no idea of what the risks are, how bad they are, or what to do about them. > Thats called "gambling", not business. OK, whatever your comfort zone is. But don't assume the risks of *not* taking a particular action are zero either. I think there is enough evidence that if you took the average income from every single app in the Android Market, and based your decision on that, you would *never* develop an app. All independent android developers are gamblers. FWIW, I do have enough data to make a few decisions about my app and how the addon model could work out for it, based on statistics, precedents and experimental data. In case you were worried. How it would work out for everybody or the "average" app is secondary to me. You can all make your own assessment about that for your own app, present or future. > Good way to run a religion. bad way to run a business. I have no experience running a religion, nor am I all that perfect at running a business, so I can't compare the two. ;) Since we both have only anecdotal evidence of quality I think I'll just have to be agnostic. Nathan Nathan <[email protected]> Feb 17 10:21AM -0800 > As for pricing this is a very good article on pricing software though it > doesn't discuss pricing in a recession when inflation takes off (though > it sort does indirectly):http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/CamelsandRubberDuckies.ht ml Thanks for sharing, I like that. Nathan <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/356a69691533c3ed> My new favorite customer feedback John Coryat <[email protected]> Feb 16 09:34PM -0800 Ok, now this *really* is my newest favorite comment in the market: *5 stars Dawn on Thursday, February 16, 2012 at 20:58 LGE LG-LG855 (LG855) Version 3.6 Great app! This app saved my sanity when the power went out during horrible spring storms and I had no way of knowing what to expect once the power went out. used this to watch the weather and got to a safe place with an infant and 2yr old in time for a rare tornado to touch down.* * * -John Coryat Science and Technology News Aggregator Twitter: http://twitter.com/coryat G+: http://www.usnaviguide.com/+ Ted Scott <[email protected]> Feb 17 11:37AM -0500 Dude, I love that app! It has had a home on my home screen since I installed it. I might even have to buy the full version someday. ;) On 2/17/2012 12:34 AM, John Coryat wrote: <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/881d1ffca0075bb1> hire android developer at Low costs from Arthisoft Sid <[email protected]> Feb 16 08:50PM -0800 hi, Arthisoft is best android app development company. It has over 500+ apps in Android Market. You can checkout it's portfolio at http://www.arthisoft.com and also you can see it's iphone and android apps gallery at http://www.mobileappsgallery.com <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/c4b1ed231940148e> Device Administration: Remote Wipe and Remote Lock openmobster <[email protected]> Feb 16 02:38PM -0800 This article covers how to perform remote wipe and remote lock on a mobile device. The device is activated on the OpenMobster Cloud, and the operations are performed from the Management Console. Link: http://code.google.com/p/openmobster/wiki/DeviceAdministration Thanks Sohil <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/t/c52eb01cef2f5b6> Device-To-Device Push Framework for Android openmobster <[email protected]> Feb 16 01:08PM -0800 Hi, Device-To-Device Push framework allows two way communication between mobile devices using the Push architecture. The linked article shows detailed instructions on how to integrate this framework into your Android mobile apps. This framework can be used to build interesting communication oriented apps such as chat and instant messaging Link: http://code.google.com/p/openmobster/wiki/D2DPushFramework Thanks Sohil You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group android-discuss. You can <mailto:[email protected]> post via email. To unsubscribe from this group, <mailto:[email protected]> send an empty message. For more options, <http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss/topics> visit this group. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en.
