Hi Matt,
Please let me know if you can help.
I have gotten Ansible 2.2.1.0 working fine with Amazon AWS. But I am
getting a 403 Forbidden Error when trying to provision a Resource group. I
can delete a resource group I created on Azure though so my service
principal must be correct. Here is the message on fail:
"module_name": "azure_rm_storageaccount"
},
"msg": "Parameter error: resource group Fun2 not found"
msg": "Error checking for existence of name Fun2 - 403 Client Error:
Forbidden"
}
Or, if you know anyone who can help. I am trying to get started with Azure
automation like I have successfully done with Amazon AWS.
Thanks,
Brad
On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 3:52:46 PM UTC-4, Matt Davis wrote:
>
> Everything 2.1.1+ should work with either rc5 or rc6 (TMK there were no
> breaking changes against our Azure footprint in rc6).
>
> On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-7, Andrea Dixon wrote:
>>
>> Thanks! Uninstalling every azure-* package certainly helped me get one of
>> my environments working! That's now running 2.1-stable from source with
>> 2.0.0rc5.
>> Is there a stable version of ansible that works with azure 2.0.0rc5?
>>
>> On Thursday, 1 September 2016 17:03:47 UTC+1, Matt Davis wrote:
>>>
>>> That's not us calling that, it's the Azure Python SDK calling itself, so
>>> something is internally out of sync (possibly stale .pyc files?). The way
>>> they package "azure" as a empty meta-package that depends on lots of other
>>> packages makes it really easy for things to get out of sync, especially
>>> with some older busted versions of pip that can mask dependency failures.
>>> I'd suggest pip uninstalling every azure-* package (uninstalling "azure" by
>>> itself is useless) and see if you can reinstall.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 1:28:22 PM UTC-7, Andrea Dixon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The issue is not on the constructor line though it's at line 146 of
>>>> ComputeManagementClient which is the Serializer (inside the constructor)
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, 30 August 2016 01:58:12 UTC+1, Matt Davis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't look like your Azure SDK is at the correct version- the rc5
>>>>> version of ComputeManagementClient
>>>>> <https://github.com/Azure/azure-sdk-for-python/blob/master/azure-mgmt-compute/azure/mgmt/compute/compute_management_client.py#L66>
>>>>>
>>>>> does indeed take two positional args, and the version you have installed
>>>>> clearly only takes one.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 7:24:57 AM UTC-7, Andrea Dixon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is azure 2.0.0rc5 + ansible stable-2.1 supposed to work now? I have
>>>>>> azure python sdk 2.0.0rc5 installed and I'm trying to run the
>>>>>> azure_rm.py
>>>>>> inventory file that I plucked from the head of stable-2.1 but I get the
>>>>>> following error:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [cafex@cfx-ansible stable-2.1]$ ./azure_rm.py --list
>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>> File "./azure_rm.py", line 763, in <module>
>>>>>> main()
>>>>>> File "./azure_rm.py", line 760, in main
>>>>>> AzureInventory()
>>>>>> File "./azure_rm.py", line 369, in __init__
>>>>>> self._compute_client = rm.compute_client
>>>>>> File "./azure_rm.py", line 353, in compute_client
>>>>>> self._compute_client =
>>>>>> ComputeManagementClient(self.azure_credentials, self.subscription_id)
>>>>>> File
>>>>>> "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/azure/mgmt/compute/compute_management_client.py",
>>>>>>
>>>>>> line 146,
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __init__
>>>>>> self._serialize = Serializer(client_models)
>>>>>> TypeError: __init__() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm assuming this azure_rm.py just has a dependency on the azure sdk
>>>>>> and not my ansible install? As my ansible is not from stable-2.1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Friday, 8 July 2016 20:06:08 UTC+1, Matt Davis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've cherry-picked everything back to 2.1 that's been fixed in
>>>>>>> devel, so it *should* all work on current stable-2.1 (slash 2.1.1 RC2).
>>>>>>> If
>>>>>>> there's stuff that still isn't working, please file issues so we can
>>>>>>> get it
>>>>>>> fixed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 6:25:25 PM UTC-7, Steven Carter wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That worked! I really appreciate it! Should the other functions
>>>>>>>> work at this point or will that still take some time?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Steven.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Matt Davis <mda...@ansible.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, looks like the azure_rm_deployment module got missed for rc5
>>>>>>>>> updates. I've tested and pushed a fix to devel and stable-2.1 (just
>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> nick of time for 2.1.1rc2), so try updating from stable-2.1 with
>>>>>>>>> submodules- should work now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 5:51:12 AM UTC-7, Steven Carter wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am installing with 'pip install --no-cache-dir git+git://
>>>>>>>>>> github.com/ansible/ansible.git@stable-2.1', so the source
>>>>>>>>>> directory gets plowed over every time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Steven.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 7, 2016 at 4:38 AM, 'J Hawkesworth' via Ansible
>>>>>>>>>> Project <ansible...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just a guess but if you are running ansible from source and
>>>>>>>>>>> switching between branches, you may need to run a
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> make clean
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> to get rid of any .pyc files
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jon
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 4:26:17 AM UTC+1, Steven Carter
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Strange, I thought that I had this working with azure 2.0.0rc5
>>>>>>>>>>>> + ansible stable-2.1, but when I tried to re-install and run my
>>>>>>>>>>>> ansible, I
>>>>>>>>>>>> get:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An exception occurred during task execution. The full traceback
>>>>>>>>>>>> is:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py", line
>>>>>>>>>>>> 661, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> <module>
>>>>>>>>>>>> main()
>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py", line
>>>>>>>>>>>> 657, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>>>>>>> AzureRMDeploymentManager()
>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py", line
>>>>>>>>>>>> 438, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> __init__
>>>>>>>>>>>> supports_check_mode=False)
>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_modlib.zip/ansible/module_utils/azure_rm_common.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> line 192, in __init__
>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py", line
>>>>>>>>>>>> 449, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> exec_module
>>>>>>>>>>>> deployment = self.deploy_template()
>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py", line
>>>>>>>>>>>> 476, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> deploy_template
>>>>>>>>>>>> deploy_parameter = DeploymentProperties()
>>>>>>>>>>>> TypeError: __init__() takes at least 2 arguments (1 given)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> fatal: [localhost]: FAILED! => {"changed": false, "failed":
>>>>>>>>>>>> true, "invocation": {"module_name": "azure_rm_deployment"},
>>>>>>>>>>>> "module_stderr": "Traceback (most recent call last):\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>> line 661, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> <module>\n main()\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>> line 657, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> main\n AzureRMDeploymentManager()\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>> line 438, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> __init__\n supports_check_mode=False)\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_modlib.zip/ansible/module_utils/azure_rm_common.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> line 192, in __init__\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>> line 449, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> exec_module\n deployment = self.deploy_template()\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_nsnYjC/ansible_module_azure_rm_deployment.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>> line 476, in
>>>>>>>>>>>> deploy_template\n deploy_parameter =
>>>>>>>>>>>> DeploymentProperties()\nTypeError:
>>>>>>>>>>>> __init__() takes at least 2 arguments (1 given)\n",
>>>>>>>>>>>> "module_stdout": "",
>>>>>>>>>>>> "msg": "MODULE FAILURE", "parsed": false}
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Would azure 2.0.0rc5 have changed in the past week? I had
>>>>>>>>>>>> resorted to only using azure_rm_resourcegroup
>>>>>>>>>>>> and azure_rm_deployment, but not azure_rm_deployment is not
>>>>>>>>>>>> working. Any
>>>>>>>>>>>> advice for, at least, getting azure_rm_deployment working again?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Steven.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Matt Davis <mda...@ansible.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, if you're happy running from source, that's probably your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> best bet- we'll be backporting fixes to the Azure modules to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stable-2.1 at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> least until 2.2 releases in late summer/early fall. Last I heard,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> RC5 was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to become the final release of the Azure Python SDK.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doing "real
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work" from the bleeding edge on devel is definitely a recipe for,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bleeding. ;)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2016 at 3:10:15 PM UTC-7, Steven Carter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a combination of azure python + Ansible that will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work or is azure 2.0.0rc5 + stable-2.1 my best bet?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steven.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2016 at 5:36:29 PM UTC-4, Matt Davis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Azure Python SDK is unfortunately still unreleased and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of a moving target, which is the cause of the issues you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Microsoft released a new RC on that stuff within a couple days
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of us
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shipping Ansible 2.1.0 that broke everything. We may end up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retroactively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeling the new Azure RM modules as "tech preview" while their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Python
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff settles down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've pushed some fixes to stable-2.1 and devel that should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more-or-less make things work again in the next release, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Houseknecht is doing a much more extensive pass over everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new Python SDK RC5 to make sure everything is good to go- those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will hopefully land in 2.1.1 as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2016 at 2:04:54 PM UTC-7, Steven Carter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to work around this by using Ansible 2.2.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the problem exist in 2.1.0.1? Should I be using that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steven.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, July 1, 2016 at 11:29:17 AM UTC-4, Steven Carter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when trying to run:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - hosts: localhost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection: local
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gather_facts: yes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vars:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> azure_region: 'eastus'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasks:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - name: Get facts for one resource group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> name: stevenca-csr
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I get:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fatal: [localhost]: FAILED! => {"changed": false,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "failed": true, "invocation": {"module_args": {"ad_user":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> null,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "client_id": null, "name": "stevenca-csr", "password": null,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "profile":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> null, "secret": null, "subscription_id": null, "tags": null,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "tenant":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> null}, "module_name": "azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts"}, "msg":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Expecting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> azure.mgmt.compute.__version__ to be >= 2016-03-30. Found
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version 0.30.0rc5
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have Azure >= 2.0.0rc2 installed?"}
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This seems to be related to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/ansible/ansible/issues/16480
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although I am using Ansible 2.1.0.0. When I work around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that issue by replacing:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AZURE_MIN_VERSION = "2016-03-30" with AZURE_MIN_VERSION =
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "0.30.0rc5"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/ansible/module_utils/azure_rm_common.py
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I still get:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An exception occurred during task execution. The full
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traceback is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 172, in <module>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 169, in main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AzureRMResourceGroupFacts()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 125, in __init__
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facts_module=True)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_modlib.zip/ansible/module_utils/azure_rm_common.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 178, in __init__
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 133, in exec_module
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self.results['objects'] = self.get_item()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 145, in get_item
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> item = self.rm_client.resource_groups.get(self.name)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_modlib.zip/ansible/module_utils/azure_rm_common.py",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 621, in rm_client
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TypeError: __init__() takes at least 3 arguments (2 given)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fatal: [localhost]: FAILED! => {"changed": false,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "failed": true, "invocation": {"module_name":
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts"}, "module_stderr": "Traceback
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (most recent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call last):\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 172, in <module>\n main()\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 169, in main\n AzureRMResourceGroupFacts()\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 125, in __init__\n facts_module=True)\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_modlib.zip/ansible/module_utils/azure_rm_common.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 178, in __init__\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 133, in exec_module\n self.results['objects'] =
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self.get_item()\n
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_module_azure_rm_resourcegroup_facts.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 145, in get_item\n item =
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self.rm_client.resource_groups.get(
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self.name)\n File
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \"/tmp/ansible_J5TjZd/ansible_modlib.zip/ansible/module_utils/azure_rm_common.py\",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> line 621, in rm_client\nTypeError: __init__() takes at least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 arguments (2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given)\n", "module_stdout": "", "msg": "MODULE FAILURE",
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "parsed": false}
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This leads me to believe that I I have some substantial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version problems with my setup or this stuff just does not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work yet. Can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone make me less ignorant here (at least with this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific topic)?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steven.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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