Jack, I think my concerns were clearly articulated.
You can play with the dates a little, but the fact some have no matching transfer within the RIR of claim, that is more significant. It looks to us, and numerous others who have messaged us (before the post who were concerned about the skyrocketing pricing) had some serious questions which chiefly were that you and others are artificially pushing the pricing up simply to increase your commissions. There is never just winners in a game like this. You push the prices up, your seller makes more, you make more. But the loser is the businesses, most likely in the developing world, who need IP's to build our infrastructure and cope with growth. But in One year, it has gone from low $20's, to $40's at the end of 2021, and now you are pushing $60's and higher. And for what reason? Supply? No. There is a steady supply out there. We're not seeing any major bidding wars. Yes, sales are good, but they aren't toilet paper good. The only time sellers refer to higher prices is when they refer to your website and say 'Can I get that price?' You are doing more harm than good by encouraging higher prices. Even to the brokering marketplace. The faster you push prices up, the sooner everyone will focus on the IPv6 and no one will need IPv4. I think 2022 will be the year that parts of the 1st world will go it alone with IPv6 as nearly all content they need or wish to access will be on IPv6. That, or some clever never provider globally like Cloudflare will create a V6<-->V4 proxy service meaning people won't need V4 at all. Will it cost? Sure... but it will be cheaper than what you've helped push IPv4 to come. So go ahead. Push prices up. But I hope you've made enough to survive once this business is gone. On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 10:53 AM Hazan, Jack <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks David. The sales are recorded in our site at the close of the > auction. Once a sale is completed the transfer process starts. If a > transfer is not completed for some reason, it is cancelled and removed from > the Prior Sales data. Skeeve, if you want to privately discuss your > concerns please feel free to reach out. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jan 7, 2022, at 10:32 PM, David Guo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > *This message is from an EXTERNAL SENDER - be CAUTIOUS, particularly with > links and attachments.* > > > > We have used them before, and I don’t have any problems. > > xTom GmbH > ------------------------------ > *From:* Skeeve Stevens <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 8, 2022 11:29:59 AM > *To:* David Guo <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] <[email protected]>; > [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [apnic-transfers] Re: FW: Require /18 or lower IP subnets > > David, > > Bullshit. I have been doing this for a long time,. > > What is your interest in defending Hilco? > > On Sat, Jan 8, 2022 at 2:24 PM David Guo <[email protected]> wrote: > > Skeeve, > > Sold does not mean “Transferred”. > > Buyers and sellers need extra time to sign agreement, submit request, wait > for RIR review, etc. > > According to our experience with them, it may take up to 30 business days > to complete the transfer process. > > Also, the pricing is listed by the seller, I don’t know why you are so > angry with that. > > xTom GmbH > ------------------------------ > *From:* Skeeve Stevens <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 8, 2022 10:44:46 AM > *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Cc:* [email protected] <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [apnic-transfers] Re: FW: Require /18 or lower IP subnets > > Yeah Jack, > > What are you doing? Are you convincing people to sell IPv4 at a stupid > level of pricing? > > You have one on your site for $120/ip... What the hell are you trying to > do to the market? > > Are you also hoarding Covid Antigen Tests and selling them for $500 each > as well? I mean, you get a percentage of the sale... so obviously your > motivation is pure. (Sarcasm). > > Even the other deals on your site are barely below USD60..... are you > just pushing prices up to pump up your commission? > > Anyone paying that sort of $$ is clearly stupid or so desperate they > somehow found their way to your site and not one of the many other legit > brokers out there. > > I encourage anyone who is selling IP addresses, to not screw people for > every dollar you possibly can get, especially for an asset that you likely > got for free, or at least cheaply - especially compared to the sale price. > > The people/countries who often need IP resources the most are developing > countries. You are making it almost impossible for them to build up their > infrastructure with this sort of pricing. The world is in chaos right now > and the last thing we need is unscrupulous actors price gouging those who > can least afford it. > > Yes, we are an IP broker, but we're also humans who want to see things > work out well for everyone, not just the greedy. > > *Also, is your data even real?* > > You say you sold a /23 in ARIN on the 8th of January selling for USD51. > > The ARIN Intra-RIR and Inter-RIR transfer statistics do not record a /23 > being transferred going back several days, or indeed there has been no /23 > this year in either statistics. > > ARIN LOGS: https://account.arin.net/public/transfer-log#NRPM-8.4IPv4 > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faccount.arin.net%2Fpublic%2Ftransfer-log%23NRPM-8.4IPv4&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320617130%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=isdxJy6jfkmkVJ3OO36Yehw6969J5jbrDAasNmrLe88%3D&reserved=0> > > You have a /19 listed in ARIN on the 7th of January. ARIN shows no such > transfer in that region... in fact, no /19's yet this year. > > You have a /19 listed in RIPE on the 5th of January. RIPE transfer > statistics do not list any /19's that have happened that seem compatible, > unless you were part of the AngleSoft merger deal, but that was 3 * /19's. > > RIPE LOGS: > https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/transfer-statistics/within-ripe-ncc-service-region/ipv4-transfer-statistics > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ripe.net%2Fmanage-ips-and-asns%2Fresource-transfers-and-mergers%2Ftransfer-statistics%2Fwithin-ripe-ncc-service-region%2Fipv4-transfer-statistics&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320617130%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mWoiVvh%2BLV8CJNB3hO9osY05e4IporTiIVdy02MpGfA%3D&reserved=0> > > You have 2 APNIC transfers apparently on the 27th of December. A /22 and a > /20. But the /22 from someone in India to RIPE and there is no /20 > transferred around this date at all. > APNIC LOGS: > https://www.apnic.net/manage-ip/manage-resources/transfer-resources/transfer-logs/ > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apnic.net%2Fmanage-ip%2Fmanage-resources%2Ftransfer-resources%2Ftransfer-logs%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320617130%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NmHw12mZbbsvE7p6HgoYtCdHZwM6hEvJXzsTQjdzHtQ%3D&reserved=0> > > You have a LACNIC transfer on the 6th of January for a /21. They have no > transfers listed for 2022 yet. OK, what about the one on the 27th of > December in LACNIC for a /24? Nope, they haven't done a /24 since the 14th > of December and have records for the whole of December. > > LACNIC LOGS: https://www.lacnic.net/4699/2/lacnic/transfers-completed > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.lacnic.net%2F4699%2F2%2Flacnic%2Ftransfers-completed&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320617130%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OTHUfYBQ1KHoGSzWRvL1Otny3YdPQMM2pDBEsDQe%2BmU%3D&reserved=0> > > Now. All I have to go on is what is in the transfer logs. So if your > Prior Sales, or the Registries are wrong or have significant date shifts, > so be it. But on the face of it, it looks as if at least parts of your data > are fabricated. > > And if it is.... one has to ask... why? > > It's ok for people to make money from IP Asset sales, but Hilco Streambank > seems to be trying to push the market price up falsely as opposed to > natural need/demand. > > This would be illegal in many countries. Imagine a real estate agent > listing heaps of fake sales at stupidly high prices, just to set the false > expectation with those looking to buy? They would be charged by the > government regulators for collusion. > > To reiterate. I am just going by the data that is available. > > ...Skeeve > > <image.png> > > > <image.png> > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 5:49 AM Hazan, Jack <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks for reaching out. Have you visited our platform. > https://auctions.ipv4.global/ > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fauctions.ipv4.global%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320617130%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3N6oFRzq5gYeN5ZEbz18SWlyQYnt47JFqr5hm2kBEuU%3D&reserved=0> > We have /16s through /24 all available online. Registration is > straightforward, as is the purchasing process. Register and take a look at > what is available. If you have questions about process, let us know. > Thanks. > > > > > > *Jack Hazan* | Executive Vice President > > > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hilcostreambank.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=u1mIGBkP6RBjtf91BiO62ajtTKryFpDkKYCJCvgyyxY%3D&reserved=0> > <image001.png> > > > > *t:* 212.610.5663 | *m:* 646.388.1361 > > *email:* [email protected] > > *web: *https://ipv4.global/ > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fipv4.global%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=cZSH%2FXCZ6eCRhHI1AKBLtEHIAGa6faXIRL11Ct2RJm4%3D&reserved=0> > > *twitter: *twitter.com/ipv4g > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fipv4g%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=NMHZjzTLFjqJVtZURIu3kjZ0df%2FDTbSapr90P5E%2B8u0%3D&reserved=0> > > > > *From:* Moorthy Baddi via apnic-transfers <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 5, 2022 7:11 AM > *To:* '[email protected]' <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [apnic-transfers] Require /18 or lower IP subnets > > > > *This message is from an EXTERNAL SENDER - be CAUTIOUS, particularly with > links and attachments.* > > > Hi, > > > > We are looking for /18 or lower IP pool. > > > > Please do let us know if you any subnet to sell. > > > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yotta.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=96ovZJMGkX9p3w3e2kPuW25J0UvtTopP1HAiuihshP4%3D&reserved=0> > <image002.jpg> > > *Moorthy Baddi* > > *General Manager* > > *IT Operations* > > > > > > -- > > ...Skeeve > > *Skeeve Stevens - Master Broker* > *v4Now Pty Ltd* > [email protected] ; v4now.com > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fv4now.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Z3lz9ezAOzgRNExcfd%2FCKA4XBMvioCXgjWTopyB%2FP4E%3D&reserved=0> > > facebook.com/v4now > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffacebook.com%2Fv4now&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MEuxjzuaGOYclCJ1nPJ0hPQGnJFlgI4pp6DWGNz7rfI%3D&reserved=0> > ; > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnetworkceoau&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=96mDuXJqLFTUWlc7vQNeNRKiKnlLbRURquG5xjNu1g4%3D&reserved=0> > linkedin.com/in/skeeve > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flinkedin.com%2Fin%2Fskeeve&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xDbdoKO3CSmsmznr7nir6ael5OtejBSu9hoClsdCFXE%3D&reserved=0> > > > IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers > > > > -- > > ...Skeeve > > *Skeeve Stevens - Master Broker* > *v4Now Pty Ltd* > [email protected] ; v4now.com > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fv4now.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Z3lz9ezAOzgRNExcfd%2FCKA4XBMvioCXgjWTopyB%2FP4E%3D&reserved=0> > > facebook.com/v4now > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffacebook.com%2Fv4now&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MEuxjzuaGOYclCJ1nPJ0hPQGnJFlgI4pp6DWGNz7rfI%3D&reserved=0> > ; > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fnetworkceoau&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=96mDuXJqLFTUWlc7vQNeNRKiKnlLbRURquG5xjNu1g4%3D&reserved=0> > linkedin.com/in/skeeve > <https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flinkedin.com%2Fin%2Fskeeve&data=04%7C01%7Cjhazan%40hilcoglobal.com%7Cdcf557ccc4bd4df254b008d9d2577281%7Cff73069906cc473891ab5061e4890dca%7C0%7C0%7C637772095320773366%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=xDbdoKO3CSmsmznr7nir6ael5OtejBSu9hoClsdCFXE%3D&reserved=0> > > > IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers > > -- ...Skeeve *Skeeve Stevens - Master Broker* *v4Now Pty Ltd* [email protected] ; v4now.com facebook.com/v4now ; <http://twitter.com/networkceoau> linkedin.com/in/skeeve IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers
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