do you seriously believe that most fruit poducers do not use "as little pesticides as possible" and instead "assault" their fruit with pesticides? that is an incredibly backward statement. Pesticides cost money, some can be pretty darn expensive. I, for one, do not like to waste money and always use as little pesticides as possible.
to make a broad statement that organic apples are better tasting that conventional apples is also closed minded. as Les Price pointed out, the primary difference in taste is because of variety and maturity at harvest. Length of storage also has adverse effects on fruit taste and quality, but there have been great strides made recently to offset that factor. Craig Tanner Tanners Ochard Speer, IL ----- Original Message ----- From: Axel Kratel To: Apple-Crop Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic Lee, I would LOVE to taste your apples, even the inorganic ones, they sound yummy! I believe you and my write up was supporting that point with growers of your scale. But I also believe it's because it's how you grow your non-organic apples. if you sprayed all the inorganic pesticides, the pre-harvest drop reduction agents, and pumped the soil full of nitrogen, your inorganic apples would be terrible compared to the organic ones. I believe that this definitely affects taste. My point was that in principle, organic or low/no-spray conventional properly harvested and handled apples are better tasting than apples assaulted with chemicals, and maybe that has to do with the fact that such growers take more care in handling apples for better flavor. I can tell you there is a striking difference in between Safeway apples and organic apples at Whole Foods for example. But I've had my share of crappy organic apples, so yes, you have to "compare apples to apples". Like I say, I will not walk away from delicious produce just because it's not organic even though I favor organic produce. For example,. I get my favorite grapes from a conventional grower that uses as little pesticides as possible. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Les Price <jonescreekfa...@yahoo.com> To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 1:56:07 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic I just can't resist a response, Axel. For Me, the problem is, public is bombarded with the hype that organic tastes better and so when they come to the farmers market or my farm store they don't know that the difference in flavor has nothing to do with whether or not it's organic but instead its in things like cultural practices, cultivar selection and oh yes, picking when it's ripe. They believe the hype. They walk away. You absolutely have to make sure you are comparing apples to apples. I grow certified apples and pears as well as the very same varieties as non organic. This is purely by circumstance in that I have not yet taken out the non - organic trees yet once I have discovered whether or not they will work in a no spray environment. I guarantee you that you will not in any way shape or form ..... especially flavor, be able to tell the difference between my organic and non - organic apples, now numbering 18 cultivars. Les Jones Creek Farms Skagit Valley, Western WA --- Axel Kratel <axel.kra...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I have a mixed reaction to this article. > > This article almost reads as if it says "the world > isn't black and white, so forget organics". That > seems rather short sighted. The truth is that > organic fruits and veggies are not only better for > your health, but they're also better for the > environment. The organic pesticides have a much > shorter half-life. > > The truth is also that generally, organic fruits and > vegetables have better flavor. Walk into a safeway > and try it out on the apples, it never fails. > > But things aren't so easy at farmers markets and > roadside fruit stands. It's also true that there are > small scale non-organic farmers that really grow > outstanding fruits, and me, personally, even though > I am a die-hard organic fruit buyer, I do lower my > standards to accommodate them. I will not walk away > from delicious moorpark apricots if they're not > certified organic, We have many local growers that > are not certified, but make an extra effort to use > as little pesticide as possible, and they should not > be punished by the consumer. > > My orchard also has the "sandy nutrient poor soil" > that the article uses as an example, and yes, even > though I try to be organic on the pesticides, I > complement organic manure and fish emulsion with > ammonium nitrate and potassium nitrate whenever a > tree shows major nitrogen deficiencies. I don't sell > my produce, but if I did, I'd probably give up the > chemical fertilizer because organic fruit commends a > higher price. > > With that being said, I will walk away from the > tasteless non-organic fruits and vegetables at the > grocery store. They're disgusting, might as well > sell cardboard. But when I go to a health food store > that sells organic produce, the difference is > striking: the organic produce is so much better it's > not even in the same league. So yes, there it is > definitely true that organic tastes way better! > > So just because the world isn't black and white, > let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. > it's not an "either/or" situation, organic is in > fact better, but it's also about making exceptions. > Rules about what to do or not to do don't serve > anyone well. Humans are given brains for a reason: > to use them and not be on automatic pilot operating > by some rules like a computer program: consumers > need to open their eyes, and make decisions case by > case, especially at the farmer's market, because > every vendor, every person, and every day is unique. > > > Here in the West, organic farming isn't really so > hard. But on the East coast, there are so many bugs > that it makes it almost impractical to be organic > lest the consumer is willing to eat ugly looking > fruit. In my opinion, therein lies the problem: we > are turning into a plastic society, everything has > to be antiseptic and perfect looking. And that's the > main reason I probably will never sell any of my > fruit from my 200 tree orchard. I know people who > threw in the towel because they got so fed up to see > people walk away from incredibly good tasting but > not perfect looking fruit to buy the bland fruits > just because they're big and pretty. To me, an oddly > shaped, heavily ribbed, russeted apple is a delight > to the eyes, and I can't wait to sink my teeth into > it. > > Another great example: lately, I've been eating a > nice crop of Espagne pears, a French Summer pear > that "blets" like a medlar, a.k.a. turns brown and > mushy when ripe, but the brown mush is an incredible > delight to the senses, like pie filling, like a > nectar of the Gods, a cross in between a medjool > date and a pear. Do you think I can easily find an > American out there who'd be willing to eat that? > Nope, they prefer their tasteless cardboardy > bartlett pears, except maybe the chefs are upscale > restaurants, who serve a more open minded clientele. > > So let the people who are on automatic pilot go and > buy their produce at safeway, the rest of us can go > and delight in our ugly, russeted, scabby but > scromtuously delicious fruit, organic is > prefferable, especially if you don't care what the > fruit looks like, but go ahead and cheat a little. > :) > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Smith, Tim" <smit...@wsu.edu> > To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> > Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:53:14 AM > Subject: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic > > > This reporter has a fresh > outlook. > > http://www.latimes.com/features/food/la-fo-calcook1-2009jul01,0,2885942.story > > > > Timothy J. Smith > WSU Extension -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00
