Hi, George --
I probably am too gullible, and Terence is quite convincing,
especially when you hear him 6 or 8 times a year at different fruit
schools! However, a consultant that I respect told me last fall that
some of the better NY growers were at or close to 2000 bushels/A on a
repeating basis in some blocks and some cultivars.
We don't yet have a lot of super high-density acres in full
production in NY, but the math on these plantings suggests that 2000
bushels/A should not be out of reach. New plantings with trees spaced
3 ft X 10 ft need only 138 apples (100 count size ) per tree to
arrive at 2000 bushels/A. That would be only 14 apples per vertical
foot on each tree. And with none of those apples more than 18 inches
from the trunk, sunlight exposure is pretty good throughout the tree
so pack-out can be pretty high.
That system is not for everyone. The learning curve can be
rather steep, the up-front costs can cause insomnia, and 10-ft
spacing between rows does not work on sloping land where there will
be some side-slip when operating tractors on wet grass. But you
better think about it carefully before you bet against it!
Dave:
With all due respect (I respect you a lot when dealing with plant
pathology) I doubt that many (or perhaps any) NY growers are getting
2,000 bushels per acre, on a cntinuing basis, with any type of
quality.
Have you been listening to my good friend Terence too long?
Be well my friend, George
PS. I never will forget the amount of cedar apple rust on a scab
resistant variety that I saw in Highland!!!!!!
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:42:49 -0500
To: [email protected]
From: Dave Rosenberger <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing
Concerning the spacing discussion below, it is worth noting
that fertilizer and pesticide costs are not insignificant in the
overall cost of orchard management. One can make some adjustments
in pesticide rates based on tree size and (with a smart sprayer) by
not spraying gaps between trees. Nevertheless, each added acre of
orchard will add significant carrying costs. Pesticide/fertilizer
costs alone, without the associated costs for labor and equipment,
are now approaching $1,000/A for orchards in the northeast. (I'm
sure some folks are doing it for less, of course.)
Based on pesticide costs alone, I'd much rather grow 10,000
bushels of apples on 5 acres as compared to 5,000 bushels on 10
acres. At $1000/A, pesticide costs will average 50 cents per
bushel for the high-yield orchard and $2/bushel on the low-yield
orchard. Most NY growers 30 years ago were happy with 5,000
bushels from 10 A, whereas the better NY growers now average 10,000
bushels on 5 acres, and that will become more common in the future
as older plantings are phased out. Someone direct-marketing their
apples may be able to survive despite spending $2/bushel in
pesticide costs. However, the carrying costs of low-density
orchards will inevitably strangle producers hoping to compete in
the wholesale market.
Apple tree spacings recommended for NY orchards may not work
in rich soils in the midwest, especially where the growing season
is longer than in NY. However, I doubt that anyone can remain
competitive in the wholesale apple market if their tree spacing
does not allow for the high yields that are becoming common in
other regions. The trick may be to move to rootstocks that are
even weaker than those used in NY and WA.
Besides pesticide costs, other factors may also limit
profitability of older orchard systems in the near future. Labor
and fuel are both likely to become increasingly scarce (perhaps
$10/gal fuel when the current upheavals in Arab countries reach
Saudi Arabia??). High-density orchards will require both less fuel
and less labor (at least when calculated on a per-bushel basis)
than older lower-density systems. It's really hard to prune and
harvest trees on 18-ft centers from a moving platform, and I
suspect that moving platforms will become essential for improving
production efficiency over the next 5 years.
Widely spaced trees that get 20 ft tall may still be a great
strategy for marketing apples to consumers who will pay you for the
experience of walking through a traditional orchard to pluck apples
from branches above their heads. Otherwise, I suspect that era is
GONE !!
_My experience, Spacing has to do with what you have to pay for
land and how much you want to reduce labor,how important coloring
is,, Wide planted trees are easier to prune,pick,good to color all
around the tree,(lower cull rate),less transfer of fire blight and
alot easier to get good spray coverage. As long as I have many
unplanted acres left on my ground,I will space wide, I have Gala
on B-9 and m-9 at 6 foot spacing, should have been 12 feet,Goldens
on G11 at 8 feet, should have been 14.Some of my rows were 18
feet,just right, some were 14 feet,disaster, If you have
reasonable priced land give yourself plenty of room.Quit thinking
X number of bushels per acre,that;s a trap, think bushels per
orchard. lee Elliott,, Winchester,IL
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**************************************************************
Dave Rosenberger
Professor of Plant Pathology Office: 845-691-7231
Cornell University's Hudson Valley Lab Fax: 845-691-2719
P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/faculty/rosenberger/
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George and Pat Greene
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Wiscasset, ME 04578
[email protected]
207-882-8074
--
**************************************************************
Dave Rosenberger
Professor of Plant Pathology Office: 845-691-7231
Cornell University's Hudson Valley Lab Fax: 845-691-2719
P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/faculty/rosenberger/
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