David, Some of these seedlings dont have a lot of vigor, It is probably because they are all back crossess to Honey Crisp, using my best initial crossess bred back to their mother, these trees are 75% honey Crisp and 25% gala, pinova, goldrush and others. Lee -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 1/6/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net <apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net> wrote:
Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2015, 11:00 AM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of apple-crop digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: How to excise malus seeds (David Doud) 2. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 49, Issue 6 (lee elliott) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2015 20:20:08 -0500 From: David Doud <david_d...@me.com> To: Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] How to excise malus seeds Message-ID: <4cb68735-9fb5-4d3c-aefb-9356bf08c...@me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I'm wondering why your success rate is so low for non-manipulated seeds - my usual regime involves leaving the seeds in the apples (if they keep reasonably well) thru the winter (this serves as stratification), cut them out in early spring (often a percentage of them are germinating by then), clorox rinse, then either store on damp paper towels in a baggie in the fridge or plant into plug trays immediately - my general experience is ~90% germination and maybe 80% make it to the field - You might want to review your stratification techniques - you might save a lot of work - David On Jan 5, 2015, at 11:27 AM, lee elliott wrote: > Anyone know an easy way to excise malus seeds, in my efforts to breed next generations of my Honey Crisp crosses I always have about half of my collected seeds are excised (split) and embryo are easy to remove. (germination rate of embryos removed from seed coat are much higher, close to 90% while unexcised seeds is about 15%) The best way so far is to soak the seed(after statification) and drag the seed gently accross a piece of sandpaper, rubbing the side of the seed where the hilum is located, then prying it apart with fingernails. this a very slow tedious procedure and may even contaminate the embryo. With hundreds of seed to excise and poor eyesight this is a most daunting task. I have googled this but nothing comes up, any ideas? Lee Elliott, Cider Hill Nursery, Winchester, Illinois > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2015 04:27:42 -0800 From: lee elliott <pippm...@yahoo.com> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 49, Issue 6 Message-ID: <1420547262.33146.yahoomailba...@web120704.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 What has worked for me is too stratify the seeds at 1 degree C. in spagnum moss for at least 10 weeks, making sure they stay moist, then remove the seed coats and transfer to clear plastic containers that allow light to hit the seeds, but not strong light, at room temperature, shortly the embryos turn green and start to grow the radicle, after the radicle is about an inch, transfer to small pot with radicle in the soil and the cotyledon sticking out, then place under florescent lamps about 2 inches away from bulb, use a heat mat and make a growing chamber to keep humidity in, at that stage the start to grow with vigor, after they reach 6 inches transfer to styrofoam cups and move under my 1000 watt grow lamp for several weeks, move plants outside on nice days to harden them off, then plant in nursery in mid April, prune off all side shoots as the tree grows (every 3-4 days) to put energy into the tops. This method has has made many seedling grow 6=7 feet in one season about 70 nodes. (they look like whips with no limbs) the idea is to get the growing tip past the juvenile period quik, Then graft the tip to a limb graft on a mature tree that has been prepared the year before.By this method the limb graft will fruit in about 2 years. This is not hard to do, and I encourage others to breed new varieties , I have been very successful, with 7 new varietys now being sold to the public. only trouble is that older varieties are hard to sell as my customers prefer the new ones.There is a huge market for variations of Honey Crisp. I am not waiting for a commercial nursery to wake up. Lee Elliott, Cider Hill Nursery, Winchester Illinois. -------------------------------------------- On Mon, 1/5/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net <apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net> wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 49, Issue 6 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Monday, January 5, 2015, 2:58 PM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to ??? apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at ??? apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of apple-crop digest..." Today's Topics: ???1. Re: How to excise malus seeds (Ian Alexander Merwin) ???2. Re: How to excise malus seeds (Hugh Thomas) ???3. Re: How to excise malus seeds (Hugh Thomas) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 18:05:51 +0000 From: Ian Alexander Merwin <i...@cornell.edu> To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] How to excise malus seeds Message-ID: <bb5126b7-e7e2-47f3-9686-1e71fb34d...@cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Lee- We used to germinate thousands of apple seeds each year to use in our replant disease soil bioassays.? Our protocol was to collect the seeds from apples that had been in cold storage for a month or so; rinse them in a 10% clorox solution; then dust them with captan or a similar fungicide; then line them out in trays of moist peat moss or vermiculite.? We could germinate several hundred seeds per 12 by 24 inch tray, planting them about 1 inch deep in parallel seed lines about 2 inches apart.? After several months in a 40 degree F refrigerator the healthy seeds would germinate and sprout.? We would transplant them into 4 inch pots with soft tweezers, when they had 2 to 4 true leaves (not counting the cotyledons). You could also group the resultant seedlings by their probable chill unit requirements, assuming that those germinating first had lower chill requirements.? Hope this is helpful! By the way Lee, those cider apple trees that I got from you on Bud.9 rootstocks about 20 years ago are all still growing and producing well in my home orchard!? Several of them (Kingston Black, Stoke?s Red, Magog Redstreak, White Jersey, etc.) have provided a lot of useful budwood for local nurseries to propagate those varieties, which has been a great help to craft cider-makers.? Thanks! Cheers Ian ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ian & Jackie Merwin Black Diamond Farm, LLC 4675 East Seneca Road Trumansburg, NY, USA, 14886 E-mail:? i...@cornell.edu<mailto:i...@cornell.edu> Website:? www.incredapple.com<http://www.incredapple.com> On Jan 05, 2015, at 11:27 AM, lee elliott <pippm...@yahoo.com<mailto:pippm...@yahoo.com>> wrote: Anyone know an easy way to excise malus seeds, in my efforts to breed next generations of my? Honey Crisp crosses I always have about half of my collected seeds are excised (split) and embryo are easy to remove. (germination rate of embryos removed from seed coat are much higher, close to 90% while unexcised seeds is? about 15%) The best way so far is to soak the seed(after statification) and drag the seed gently accross a piece of sandpaper, rubbing the side of the seed where the hilum is located, then prying it apart with fingernails. this a very slow tedious procedure and may even contaminate the embryo. With hundreds of seed to excise and poor eyesight this is a most daunting task. I have googled this but nothing comes up, any ideas????Lee Elliott, Cider Hill Nursery, Winchester, Illinois _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20150105/2e8b6ac7/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 13:42:04 -0700 From: Hugh Thomas <hughthoma...@gmail.com> To: Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] How to excise malus seeds Message-ID: ??? <CAOvCNd+S7fFi2AajXA9K=kz7lw65sknwroytz3dlr+acun0...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Try a rock tumbler. This is a small rotary drum that is rubber lined. You can add the seed plus a grit, say silicon carbide or sand. Basically, the thing turns and the seeds will wear away in time. Might only take a few minutes or may take a day or two. I'm thinking the 120/220 grit would work well. http://geology.com/rock-tumbler/rock-tumblers.shtml On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Ian Alexander Merwin <i...@cornell.edu> wrote: >? Lee- > We used to germinate thousands of apple seeds each year to use in our > replant disease soil bioassays.? Our protocol was to collect the seeds from > apples that had been in cold storage for a month or so; rinse them in a 10% > clorox solution; then dust them with captan or a similar fungicide; then > line them out in trays of moist peat moss or vermiculite.? We could > germinate several hundred seeds per 12 by 24 inch tray, planting them about > 1 inch deep in parallel seed lines about 2 inches apart.? After several > months in a 40 degree F refrigerator the healthy seeds would germinate and > sprout.? We would transplant them into 4 inch pots with soft tweezers, when > they had 2 to 4 true leaves (not counting the cotyledons). You could also > group the resultant seedlings by their probable chill unit requirements, > assuming that those germinating first had lower chill requirements.? Hope > this is helpful! > >? By the way Lee, those cider apple trees that I got from you on Bud.9 > rootstocks about 20 years ago are all still growing and producing well in > my home orchard!? Several of them (Kingston Black, Stoke?s Red, Magog > Redstreak, White Jersey, etc.) have provided a lot of useful budwood for > local nurseries to propagate those varieties, which has been a great help > to craft cider-makers.? Thanks! > Cheers > Ian >? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Ian & Jackie Merwin > Black Diamond Farm, LLC > 4675 East Seneca Road > Trumansburg, NY, USA, 14886 > E-mail:? i...@cornell.edu > Website:? www.incredapple.com > > > > >? On Jan 05, 2015, at 11:27 AM, lee elliott <pippm...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > Anyone know an easy way to excise malus seeds, in my efforts to breed next > generations of my? Honey Crisp crosses I always have about half of my > collected seeds are excised (split) and embryo are easy to remove. > (germination rate of embryos removed from seed coat are much higher, close > to 90% while unexcised seeds is? about 15%) The best way so far is to soak > the seed(after statification) and drag the seed gently accross a piece of > sandpaper, rubbing the side of the seed where the hilum is located, then > prying it apart with fingernails. this a very slow tedious procedure and > may even contaminate the embryo. With hundreds of seed to excise and poor > eyesight this is a most daunting task. I have googled this but nothing > comes up, any ideas????Lee Elliott, Cider Hill Nursery, Winchester, Illinois > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20150105/789655c0/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2015 13:58:31 -0700 From: Hugh Thomas <hughthoma...@gmail.com> To: Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] How to excise malus seeds Message-ID: ??? <caovcnd+nan6mwfy4qu_kzlfu_7fpq9lrl-v6q4ho11zlptz...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" P.S. Forgot to mention that you and then separate the seeds from the grit with a kitchen strainer. On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Hugh Thomas <hughthoma...@gmail.com> wrote: > Try a rock tumbler. This is a small rotary drum that is rubber lined. You > can add the seed plus a grit, say silicon carbide or sand. Basically, the > thing turns and the seeds will wear away in time. Might only take a few > minutes or may take a day or two. I'm thinking the 120/220 grit would work > well. http://geology.com/rock-tumbler/rock-tumblers.shtml > > On Mon, Jan 5, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Ian Alexander Merwin <i...@cornell.edu> > wrote: > >>? Lee- >> We used to germinate thousands of apple seeds each year to use in our >> replant disease soil bioassays.? Our protocol was to collect the seeds from >> apples that had been in cold storage for a month or so; rinse them in a 10% >> clorox solution; then dust them with captan or a similar fungicide; then >> line them out in trays of moist peat moss or vermiculite.? We could >> germinate several hundred seeds per 12 by 24 inch tray, planting them about >> 1 inch deep in parallel seed lines about 2 inches apart.? After several >> months in a 40 degree F refrigerator the healthy seeds would germinate and >> sprout.? We would transplant them into 4 inch pots with soft tweezers, when >> they had 2 to 4 true leaves (not counting the cotyledons). You could also >> group the resultant seedlings by their probable chill unit requirements, >> assuming that those germinating first had lower chill requirements.? Hope >> this is helpful! >> >>? By the way Lee, those cider apple trees that I got from you on Bud.9 >> rootstocks about 20 years ago are all still growing and producing well in >> my home orchard!? Several of them (Kingston Black, Stoke?s Red, Magog >> Redstreak, White Jersey, etc.) have provided a lot of useful budwood for >> local nurseries to propagate those varieties, which has been a great help >> to craft cider-makers.? Thanks! >> Cheers >> Ian >>? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Ian & Jackie Merwin >> Black Diamond Farm, LLC >> 4675 East Seneca Road >> Trumansburg, NY, USA, 14886 >> E-mail:? i...@cornell.edu >> Website:? www.incredapple.com >> >> >> >> >>? On Jan 05, 2015, at 11:27 AM, lee elliott <pippm...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Anyone know an easy way to excise malus seeds, in my efforts to breed >> next generations of my? Honey Crisp crosses I always have about half of my >> collected seeds are excised (split) and embryo are easy to remove. >> (germination rate of embryos removed from seed coat are much higher, close >> to 90% while unexcised seeds is? about 15%) The best way so far is to soak >> the seed(after statification) and drag the seed gently accross a piece of >> sandpaper, rubbing the side of the seed where the hilum is located, then >> prying it apart with fingernails. this a very slow tedious procedure and >> may even contaminate the embryo. With hundreds of seed to excise and poor >> eyesight this is a most daunting task. I have googled this but nothing >> comes up, any ideas????Lee Elliott, Cider Hill Nursery, Winchester, Illinois >> >> _______________________________________________ >> apple-crop mailing list >> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net >> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> apple-crop mailing list >> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net >> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20150105/c16f7feb/attachment.html> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop End of apple-crop Digest, Vol 49, Issue 6 ***************************************** ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop End of apple-crop Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 ***************************************** _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
