Just how much copper can be safely used in the pring for FB control, I use 2 oz in 100 gal , no sign of russet, have perfect completion even on Pink Lady, and, it looks like we could use a lot more on nursery trees and young trees not fruiting yet. , Also as everybody knows the sickly sweet smell that FB has, Can a dog be trained to alert on FB before its even apparent to us humans? I might trust a dog more than some computor program, anybody ever try this?? -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 8/18/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net <apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net> wrote:
Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2015, 3:17 PM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of apple-crop digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (David A. Rosenberger) 2. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (Vincent Philion) 3. Re: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 (Vincent Philion) 4. Re: Looking for comments on fire blight management (Smith, Timothy J) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 18:37:13 +0000 From: "David A. Rosenberger" <da...@cornell.edu> To: Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 Message-ID: <0e94bf9f-5e75-4f1c-bdea-df6acd4db...@cornell.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Strep is extremely stable if it is kept dry and out of direct light (e.g., in a closed cardboard drum or foil package). It does break down in sunlight. I don?t know if other components in the formulations might ?age out? and become less effective (e.g., less surfactant activity), but the strep itself should remain stable. Strep sprays are NOT a waste of money IF (1) inoculum is present at bloom, and (2) weather conditions favor flower infection during bloom. Unfortunately, none of the available models can predict whether or not inoculum is present in any give orchard, so we end up spraying orchards that really would not need protection if we had a way of knowing that they were free of inoculum AND that that no inoculum would be brought to the orchard throughout the remainder of the bloom period. Lacking such a tool, strep provides valuable protection even though it may not be needed in many cases where it is applied. Of course, strep applied during bloom does not prevent shoot blight if inoculum arrives in the orchard only AFTER bloom is over, but shoot blight is generally far more severe in orchards where there was at least a bit of blossom blight. Bottom line is that strep does not resolve all problems with fire blight, but without strep we would have a lot more orchards being bulldozed every year due to fire blight epidemics. There are some relatively new alternatives to strep, but all of them are either more expensive, less reliable, or (usually) both. And the fact that I am promoting the value of strep sprays does not negate the possibility that increasing copper nutrition could be beneficial. In fact, applying a low rate of copper in all spring sprays as Lee Elliot has suggested could be really beneficial in terms of reducing blight inoculum within the orchard before and during bloom. However, I also suspect that in some years and with some cultivars, those in-season copper sprays will cause at least a bit of fruit russetting. Just because copper russetting has not be noted this year or last year or even for the past five years, one cannot be certain that it will NEVER be a problem. ******************************************** Dave Rosenberger, Plant Pathologist, Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060 ******************************************** > On Aug 18, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Fleming, William <w...@montana.edu> wrote: > > Lee, can't help you on reading your date but we had a 35 lb. drum of strep dated 1972 that I didn't trust. Had the guys in the lab plate it out, it killed all the bacteria they introduced it to. > The drum had been stored in a cool dry place > > Bill Fleming > Montana State University > Western Ag Research Center > 580 Quast Lane > Corvallis, MT 59828 > > -----Original Message----- > From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of lee elliott > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 5:52 AM > To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 > > Just my personal experience, dont know if any studies made, I think a lot of the problem is copper deficiancy, after doing leaf analysis, my copper levels were in the bottom of the scale, alsso in soil analysis, added Kocide 3000 to dormant spray, and small amount (2oz per 100 gal) in spring sprays, also copper added to herbicide spray, copper levels in leaf analysis came up but stil not normal, I have less FB and can see the difference. Also, nothing beats staying on top of the situation by walking the orchard every morning and cut it out before it spreads, this works well for small orchards like mine. Most of my FB is shoot blight, I think strep sprays are a waste of $$$. This my be because the strep is old, does anyone know how to read date of manufacture on the bag?? Lee Elliott, Apple Hill/ Upstart Nursery, Winchester, Illinois > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 8/15/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net <apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net> wrote: > > Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 > To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > Date: Saturday, August 15, 2015, 11:00 AM > > Send apple-crop mailing list > submissions to > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' > to > apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of apple-crop digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Looking for comments on fire blight management > (Weinzierl, Richard A) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2015 21:26:58 +0000 > From: "Weinzierl, Richard A" <weinz...@illinois.edu> > To: Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> > Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight > management > Message-ID: > <f1da5cce7c3ebe43b873f3bd2ba709a73d62b...@citesmbx6.ad.uillinois.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > U of I Kane County Extension Office, 535 South Randall Road, St. Charles, IL > > Rick > > > From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net > [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] > On Behalf Of Vincent Philion > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM > To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> > Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management > > Hi Tim! nice to read you! > > I think there are more sources of fire blight bacteria in the general environment in the northeastern USA due to your woodlots and forests (with feral apples and native hosts such as Hawthorne) as contrasted with the treeless conditions around many eastern Washington orchards. > > I agree! But still is fascinating to see whole areas without FB and others with FB, despite similar weather. > > We often make ?false positive? predictions because of this = conditions are great for FB, but not FB develops because bacteria are simply not there. We have nice qPCR data throughout bloom to prove it. > > The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is accomplished you have an infection. > > Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? > When I reviewed the literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases. > > We can learn a great deal about interpreting models by looking at the weather data around the time that we are fairly certain that isolated infection events occurred. We can also look at when expected infections did not occur. It would be very helpful to me if any of you would share weather data including rainfall, hourly temperature (or daily temps) and especially leaf wetness readings. Please send data that covers days from first bloom to about 3 to 4 weeks after petal fall. Excel files are a real time saver. > > We?re Also looking for the same type of data?! > > Vincent > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20150814/cce4e9cf/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > > End of apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 > ***************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:42:56 -0600 From: Vincent Philion <vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca> To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 Message-ID: <812643cf-e4dd-4ecd-8dff-239e13765...@irda.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi! I?m not sure I understand: > Just my personal experience, dont know if any studies made, I think a lot of the problem is copper deficiancy, Your hypothesis is that copper deficiency in trees make them more prone to get fire blight (FB)? Your dormant/Spring sprays of copper knock down bacteria populations, so it?s not surprising you see less FB. This is why copper is routinely recommended. But because of russet on certain cultivars, this is not a popular solution with growers. > mine. Most of my FB is shoot blight, I think strep sprays are a waste of $$$. It?s true strep is not useful if conditions favorable for FB are not encountered during bloom. But strep is a life saving investment when blossom blight conditions do occur! Vincent Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de d?veloppement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Qu?bec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 12:55:39 -0600 From: Vincent Philion <vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca> To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 8 Message-ID: <b229adb0-9a18-45de-bc82-7b4fb6edb...@irda.qc.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Hi Dave, your answer came in as I was pushing the send button ;-) We basically wrote the same thing! > Unfortunately, none of the available models can predict whether or not inoculum is present in any given orchard, We?ve just completed a 4 yr trial of monitoring bacteria during bloom using qPCR and conclusions are simple: 1) Unless the sensitivity of the assay is greatly improved, the blossom sampling effort is too important to reliably predict fire blight based on bacteria population. 2) The best we could achieve with routine sampling is potentially avoid massive large scale regional epidemic. I don?t see how to solve this at this point. Vincent Vincent Philion, agr., M.Sc. Microbiologiste/Phytopathologiste (pomiculture) Institut de recherche et de d?veloppement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.ca Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Qu?bec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2015 20:17:12 +0000 From: "Smith, Timothy J" <smit...@wsu.edu> To: Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management Message-ID: <5ae41c00e7100940a44a530bbbe66fd6171fb...@exmb-08.ad.wsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Re: The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is accomplished you have an infection. Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? When I reviewed the literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases. Hi Richard, Yes, bacteriologist have been dropping the term ?quorum sensing? over the past few years, which is a trait within both pathogenic and beneficial bacteria that allows them to be non-virulent when in low numbers, then, when they sense when numbers are sufficient to overwhelm the host, they all ?switch on? their virulence, or if beneficial, the next action they are building up to. This may allow them to avoid triggering host defense mechanisms until it is too late for the plant to successfully defend itself. Look on Google for that term ?Quorum sensing? + Erwnia amylovora and you will find some good recent journal articles. Try those below for a start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorum_sensing http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082838/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17092294 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, Richard A Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 2:27 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management U of I Kane County Extension Office, 535 South Randall Road, St. Charles, IL Rick From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Philion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 12:49 PM To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net>> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Looking for comments on fire blight management Hi Tim! nice to read you! I think there are more sources of fire blight bacteria in the general environment in the northeastern USA due to your woodlots and forests (with feral apples and native hosts such as Hawthorne) as contrasted with the treeless conditions around many eastern Washington orchards. I agree! But still is fascinating to see whole areas without FB and others with FB, despite similar weather. We often make ?false positive? predictions because of this = conditions are great for FB, but not FB develops because bacteria are simply not there. We have nice qPCR data throughout bloom to prove it. The bacteria (in the hypanthium) need to thrive in the nectary in order to reach numbers sufficient to switch on their virulence. Once this is accomplished you have an infection. Do you have a good reference for me on this specific topic? When I reviewed the literature, I only found a few things from Pusey. This might explain some cases. We can learn a great deal about interpreting models by looking at the weather data around the time that we are fairly certain that isolated infection events occurred. We can also look at when expected infections did not occur. It would be very helpful to me if any of you would share weather data including rainfall, hourly temperature (or daily temps) and especially leaf wetness readings. Please send data that covers days from first bloom to about 3 to 4 weeks after petal fall. Excel files are a real time saver. We?re Also looking for the same type of data?! Vincent -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://virtualorchard.net/pipermail/apple-crop/attachments/20150818/6eb0fcb1/attachment.html> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop End of apple-crop Digest, Vol 56, Issue 10 ****************************************** _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
