LAUTENSCHLAEGER, Wolfram (Wolfram) <[email protected]> 
wrote:
> 
> Shouldn't we more concentrate on what we expect from a good AQM?

   I'd love to...

> The only thing we might expect from an AQM is to prevent greedy TCP
> sources from drawing buffers permanently towards full state,

   I'm not the least bit sure that's possible. :^(

   However, it might be possible to separate the queue(s) of "greedy"
TCP flows from other queues. There's a lot of room for discussion about
how to do that...

> instead of the much better almost empty state,

   Consider the class of real-time flows, which hardly ever want to
stand in line for more than a millisecond or two. (They can generate
redundancy to compensate for packet loss, or ideally have ECN-marked
packets get through quickly.)

> while maintaining full link utilization.

   That's a concern of _some_ traffic, but not real-time flows.

> In all other situations, I'm convinced, AQM cannot improve a lot.

   "All other situations" covers a lot of ground... :^(

   And we may not all mean the same thing by "greedy TCP". Standard
TCPs probe for additional capacity if they have anything to send. I
consider that enough to call them "greedy"; but I'm sure others don't
agree.

> But at least, in these cases, it should not make things worse.

   "Make things worse" is perhaps insufficiently defined.

   Any delay at all "makes things worse" for real-time traffic.

   Failure to discover unused capacity "makes things worse" for TCP.

> Of course the greedy TCP case can be overlaid by others (unresponsive
> flows, application paced flows, a renewal process of short lived flows,
> synchronized start of flows etc.etc.),

   These cover quite different situations...

   Unresponsive flows are a problem iff we buffer too much/many of them.

   Application-paced flows are a problem only if they're probing for
increased capacity.

   Revewal flows are a problem if they guess badly at remaining capacity.

> and we should take this into account. But we should not expect a lot
> if those "others" dominate the scenario.

   I speculate that none of these would be a problem if we limited the
extent which we buffer them.

--
John Leslie <[email protected]>

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