arachne-digest Sunday, January 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2017
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:16:47 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:38:37 -0500, Glenn McCorkle wrote: > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:23:43 -0400, L.D. Best wrote: > <snip> > Thank you very much...... it is now part of my new sign.txt > -- > If a country is to remain free its citizens must defy unjust laws. The new > "anti-terrorism" laws abridge the rights of us all. It is time to keep the > snoopers busy; how about a little Carnivore confusion "noise": Allah be PGP > arms Anthrax cropduster funds transfer customs Mecca infidel jihad Bush EOT > Glenn > http://arachne.cz/ > http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ > http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm > http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ That is not confusion. Carnivore can easily recognize it as being just dummy traffic. If you want to succeed at producing some real confusion for Carnivore you should send a sig that looks something like this, but don't send the same sig more than once: - -- PRIORITY GQITM MSG NUM DYJ PROWORD CABAL GROUPS 23 SITTR GPUMX EPNTB YEPNT YQLNM QYNKY HROPR PQMAO MWVPO SGTPQ YTPVM PYBNQ QOPXY WCAPM OEOPM PQVID QOMMT GYIIP PXUTR HYLLP HYKMK WUXXX XXXXX I AUTHENTICATE TK - -- It is impossible for Carnivore to determine whether something like the above is just a random garbage transmission or whether it is a message carrying information or instructions. You cannot analyze it. Maybe it is just garbage. Maybe it is a message containing information and instructions, and maybe there is someone reading this message and to whom I have securely transmitted a one-time pad by which it can be easily decrypted. The only thing I can feel reasonably sure of is that neither you nor Carnivore knows whether the above is just dummy traffic. Even if I were to say that it is just dummy traffic, how would you or Carnivore know for certain that I am telling the truth? Sam Heywood - -- This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser: http://browser.arachne.cz/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:11 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights - ----- Original Message ----- From: "L.D. Best" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 10:23 PM Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:36:03 -0000, John Sparks wrote: > <snip> > > > Perhaps the only truly civilised society would be one where everyone was > > allowed to own weapons but no-one wanted to take up the option. > > No ... because fear and hidden agendas could be the reason for persons > to not "take up the option." > In that case they *would want* to take up the option but not be able to do so because of fear or whatever :-) I can, I think, understand your example of coming under attack, though I am lucky enough to not have been seriously threatened myself. I am not trying to pontificate that you should not own a gun no matter what your circumstances. What I am saying is that my personal definition of a truly civilised society would not include widespread ownership of guns. I had a fairly recent experience of a man under the influence of drugs or alcohol gaining entry to my daughters house. The police were called and fortunately I managed to talk him into leaving without serious incident. Had there been a gun handy then it would have been tempting, motivated by fear etc, to grab hold of that and in a stressful situation accidents can happen. John - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/03 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:16:42 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 18:23:43 -0400, L.D. Best wrote: <snip> Thank you very much...... it is now part of my new sign.txt - -- If a country is to remain free its citizens must defy unjust laws. The new "anti-terrorism" laws abridge the rights of us all. It is time to keep the snoopers busy; how about a little Carnivore confusion "noise": Allah be PGP arms Anthrax cropduster funds transfer customs Mecca infidel jihad Bush EOT Glenn http://arachne.cz/ http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:18 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:18 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) unsubscribe arachne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:03 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Comments on the DMCA and te TPCA Hi Sam! 11 Jan 2003, "Sam Ewalt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Bush invented the Department of homeland security (also known as >> "Big Brother") 170000 people working there, budget of over 35 >> billion $/year !!!!!! SE> Homeland Security is a new bureaucratic catch all that reassigns many SE> existing departments and governmental bureaus to a new dept and gives SE> them all a new focus. I know ... but many people (including me) fear that it is used to cut freedom of citizens more, and to use it to increase their $$$. (so that dhs gets more money at the end, than the single organizations got before) anyways ... we will see. And things tend to look worse at the beginning than that they really are at the end. (I hope you understand this grammatically wrong sentence) >> Boy ... I can't say how happy I am that I had the luck of not being >> born in the US ! SE> Perhaps this is easier for your conscience. I'm proud to be an SE> American, proud of our American democratic ideals and proud of many SE> things that Americans have accomplished in the world, Sure ... I apologize for having written that. SE> including helping to rebuild Austria with the Marshall Plan after SE> World War II. and this was a really great help. But it was also a great help for america :) But it took many intelligent persons to realize this. And I'm very glad that they were all there. Both very much helped the opther ones economy. But for austria there's a another (IMO even bigger help) as the USA allowed Austria to become a free country. This was a really courageous move, and I don't know if I would have allowed it if I would have been america. This together with the support of east berlin was very, very important. SE> I think there is another current in America besides the fear and SE> insecurity provoked by the terrible events of 9-11. A current that SE> has deep respect for freedom and the Bill of Rights. I think this SE> current will reassert itself. I hope so ... But the trend to limit freedom of citizens is not only an american problem. We (all) have to fight against it. SE> Sam Ewalt CU, Ricsi - -- |~)o _ _o Richard Menedetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> {ICQ: 7659421} (PGP) |~\|(__\| -=> I Wonder What The Big Red Button Does...? <=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:16:45 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: http://users.breathemail.net/g4rio/ On Wed, 08 Jan 2003 15:23:33 -0500, you wrote: Hi Sam, > One Arachne idosyncratic behavior is shown here however. Selecting one > of the links from the left hand frame, it loads ok but does not display. > Instead you get the main frame displayed over again. > Then clicking on the link a second time will get it to display > in place of the main frame. > I've noticed this Arachne behavior with frames on most other sites. > I have to click twice to get something displayed. > Has the handling of frames been improved with 1.71UE? > Sam Ewalt > Croswell, Michigan, USA I noticed the same thing, downloads the link but does not display until you click a second time. I'm using 1.71UE01 Regards Laurie - -- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:05 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Comments on the DMCA and te TPCA Hi Samuel! 11 Jan 2003, "Samuel W. Heywood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [dhs] >> And nobody cares !!! SH> The so-called Big Brother department was created in order to SH> consolidate the functions of several intelligence and law enforcement SH> agencies into one big super-agency. Yes ... but it has also much more rights than before. And this rights can be abused. (-> big brother) Let's hope that this will not happen too much ... SH> Nobody cares because anything done for the mere purpose of improving SH> efficiency in government will save the taxpayers some money. I doubt that it will cost less, and I doubt that it will not limit freedom of americans. We will see how much it costed, after the next american budget. (I'm really, really sure that it will be much more) >> Back to big brother >> First move from M$ was to designate Thomas Richey as M$ director for >> homeland security ... who waits now that W buys software for huge >> amounts of $$ from M$ SH> What did Micro$oft have to do with getting Thomas Richey a job? SH> I don't even know who Thomas Richey is. I thought Tom Ridge was the SH> director of Homeland Security. sorry ... I did not make myself clear. M$ has nothing to do with dhs. But the first move of M$ was to designate a director at M$ who is director for homeland security. And they wnat to make big $$$ with it. Anyways that's their right ... just wanted to tell you that much of your taxes could go to M$ for the pruduction of technology which will be used to limit the freedom of americans. SH> The reason why government and most big corporations use Micro$oft SH> operating $ystem$ and $oftware is that the schools, colleges, and SH> other educational institutions in the US don't offer many courses on SH> alternative operating systems and software. sad ... but this is not only an american problem. M$ software is largly used in the whole world, and many people get used to it. But the situation gets less severe when higher postitions are though of. For example in my university I have seldom met windows ... but used many types of commercial (aix, hpux, etc) and free (linux, bsd) Unixes. SH> The teaching staff will officially discourage the students from SH> becoming very interested in alternative operating systems because they SH> say that area employers seeking to hire people for computer-related SH> jobs are looking only for people who know how to do Micro$oft stuff. SH> Unfortunately this is mostly true. But very shortsighted. People who know the basic ideas, can use any software. People who know only how sw x works, know nothing if they have to upgrade to another version, or even another program. >> And another highly sick part is the `Cyber Security Enhancement Act' >> (CSEA) a law that IMO clearly violates international Law, and UN >> law. SH> I have never heard of the "Cyber Security Enhancement Act". If it SH> were something so highly controversial, why don't they talk about it SH> in the news? They haven't talked about other controversial issues :) But this one is not so controversial for americans. And I haven't heared/read about it much. Basically it says that american courts can judge about non americans, who have nothing to do with america, and haven't ever been, there, nor commited a crime there. SH> The average citizen cannot keep up with every piece of new legislation SH> that comes around. IMHO this act is not that important that it is a must report for media. If there will be a case than IMHO it could get important ... but until than it is no big problem not to report about it. SH> The citizen trusts the news media to report on all the significant SH> bills. Like in all other countries. SH> I have recently learned from you that the news media is failing us in SH> this regard. IMHO it could be that some journalists do misunderstand the word patriotism (a word which is often used in america ... and IMHO not so often completely understood) Anyways not writing about *that* act is no big problem. SH> Sam Heywood CU, Ricsi - -- |~)o _ _o Richard Menedetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> {ICQ: 7659421} (PGP) |~\|(__\| -=> Most allies must be watched just like the enemy <=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:14 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:00:26 +0100 (CET), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Menedetter) wrote: <snip> > Anyways ... another big surprise for me: > Bush administration handles Korea conflict 100 times better than I would have > thought possible. This is because the North Korean leaders are not thought of as being as psychopathic as Sadam Hussein. The Bush administration thinks they can be reasoned with and negotiated with and possibly even bought off. Although the North Koreans even admit to having some nukes, we do not believe they have any ideas about actually using them against nearby countries, at least not in the immediate future. Their corner of the world is not anywhere as troubled as the Middle East. I think the North Koreans are producing the nukes not to start a war, but only to increase their bargaining power at the negotiating table when dealing with countries which don't want them to have them. The North Koreans are now in a stronger position than the one they held before they had the nukes. They can offer to stop producing and to dismantle their nukes in exchange for some concessions and better treatment by the countries they don't get along with very well. I think the North Koreans and the rest of the world can work out a peaceable and positive outcome for everyone concerned. Sam Heywood - -- positive outcome for themselves - -- This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser: http://browser.arachne.cz/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:04 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights Hi Samuel! 11 Jan 2003, "Samuel W. Heywood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> They remind me of russian communist TV ... the only difference is >> that in former Russia Journalist were killed if they did not say >> what the government wanted them to say, in CNN they shut their mouth >> up by their own. SH> In the US if a news reporter does not say what the network wants him SH> to say the network will just fire him. Then he can get an SH> equally well-paying job from another network which has a bias which is SH> more amenable to the reporter's own leanings and opinions. sure ... my point was extermely strong ... :) I just wanted to make people think :))) >> I never in my life have seen such a biased journalism in my life ... >> never ever ! >> SH> I regard the views aired on all of these news networks as being >> SH> very critical. >> Joking again ?? SH> No, I am not joking. They are indeed very critical about what is SH> going on in those areas which they choose to report about. The SH> problem is that they are neglecting to report on some events which SH> many news program viewers regard as highly significant. this is propably the case controversial reports on some issues, and ignoring others. >> Sometimes (sorry in advance) americans seem like cattle which >> blindly follow W to the butcher, without nowing where they are >> going, and what consequences this will have. >> Sorry again ... this is only meant as a wakeup call ... SH> Americans are not blindly following him. If you would visit the SH> newsgroups devoted to political discussions you will find that there SH> are many Americans who are severely criticising GW Bush. But there is no real oppostition against him ... even if he does controversial things. Anyways ... another big surprise for me: Bush administration handles Korea conflict 100 times better than I would have thought possible. SH> Sam Heywood CU, Ricsi - -- |~)o _ _o Richard Menedetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> {ICQ: 7659421} (PGP) |~\|(__\| -=> Looking for Love? - Adopt a pet! <=- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:16:40 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:36:03 -0000, John Sparks wrote: <snip> > Perhaps the only truly civilised society would be one where everyone was > allowed to own weapons but no-one wanted to take up the option. No ... because fear and hidden agendas could be the reason for persons to not "take up the option." Rather, the only truly civilised society would be one where everyone was allowed to, and did, own weapons ... but they had no use other than for sporting events and competitions. I "live in a free country"; that country passed a law which made my 80 year old mother a felon -- because she still had the semi-automatic .22 cal rifle I used to hunt rabbits to feed us many years ago, and it was capable of holding more than 20 rounds of ".22 shorts." I "live in a free country" where a man insane on crystal and hunting for an "enemy" decided to hunt in MY home ... and his attempts to kick in my metal sheathed front door twisted the tongue on the latch so badly we were almost unable to open it after he left. [We slept with a couch in front of the door that night, because we dared not attempt to latch the door back up, and repairs weren't possible until the next day.] At the time, my rifle was in one place, the bolt in a second, and the ammo in a third; a 50+ disabled veteran armed with a cane, and a 17 yo boy with a short bo, would not have survived if the berserker had made it through the door and decided to vent his insanity upon us. I "live in a free country" where acts of, or confessions to, child molestation are protected from "the law" because a church is involved. I "live in a free country" where I must perjure myself as a witness in order for the jury to believe me. [I am not Christian, swearing an oath on The Bible is meaningless to me, but if I "aver" to tell the truth then I suddenly become an untrustworthy weirdo.] I "live in a free country" where I'm allowed to yell FIRE!! in a crowded theater, if there is a fire ... but people don't run because they have decided that they don't want to believe a fire could possible "happen here." Freedom isn't about guns, it's about the NEED for guns. Freedom isn't about politics, it's having the power to control politicians. Freedom isn't about free speech, it's about being able to speak so that others can hear and understand. Democracy -- to paraphrase Sir Winston Churchil -- is a crappy form of government, but so far it's the best one out there. ==== -- If a country is to remain free its citizens must defy unjust laws. The new "anti-terrorism" laws abridge the rights of us all. It is time to keep the snoopers busy; how about a little Carnivore confusion "noise": Allah be PGP arms Anthrax cropduster funds transfer customs Mecca infidel jihad Bush EOT - -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:17 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:20:46 -0000, John Sparks wrote: > I will have to concede then that in the current USA widespread gun ownership > is desirable. > I grew up in suburban UK and almost no-one had a gun. I never saw anyone > carrying a gun (other than children's toys) and only knew 2 people who owned > guns (one an air pistol and one a revolver with no ammunition) Exceptions > were the military and fairgrounds and the like. 30 years ago in my > environment people did not get shot, none. No guns = no shootings period. > Unfortunately that is no longer true, especially in some areas. But I still > believe that no guns is a desirable state of affairs. Why does there seem to be simply the consentration upon "no guns" as being the answer to preventing crime ? Why not..... no knives.... no clubs.... no swords.... no weapons of any kind ??? Is that not exactly what every dictator through-out history has done ??? (remove every weapon they could from the hands of the civilians) Did removeing weapons from the civilians prevent crime ? Or did it simply make it easier for that dictator to maintain controll over the civilian population ? - -- Glenn http://arachne.cz/ http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:09 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: HTML Programming Hi Laurie, I already downloaded this one... and I am not impressed. Not impressed for use as a learn tool for HTML. I learned a lot more from the 'examples' in Arachne = arachne\examples\*.* plus the help of a simple booklet from the towns librairy. CU, Bastiaan On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:45:58 +0000, Laurie L Proud wrote: > On Sun, 29 Dec 2002 01:20:55 +00, you wrote: >>> "HTML Editor for Arachne" >>> Copyright 1999 Vitex Software - [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> Version 0.9 Beta ......Unfinished Beta version :-( >> Can this HTML Editor downloaded somewhere... this an email address. >> Regards, Bastiaan > Hi Bastiaan, > If you missed it first time round, the HTML Editors are available > as Arachne APM's here > http://browser.arachne.cz/dos > The "HTML Editor for Arachne" you were looking for is 3/4 of the way > down the page in the unfinished Beta section. > The link from memory might be: > http://browser.arachne.cz/apm/htmt0922.apm >>> It's a shame this Editor is still a Beta, it look's virtually >>> finished, reminds me of Edit. Provided it's stable and hasen't >>> any bugs it looks very useful. > Regards Laurie > -- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:16:51 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights How much difference one man can make in American politics has been wonderfully demonstrated by gov Ryan, who is first to break the myth that the American justice system would be infallible. I sure hope this will reach Tx, too. And before a next war starts, because quite similar to the undeserved faith of many Americans in the deterrant effect of capital punishment, their call for the "war on terrorism" is of the same category, ill-based categorical measures with doubtful effect and a high level of cruelty. You may call me a communist if you like (although I prefer "socialist"), but surely this last day decision in Illinois is just a first step back from the point where civilisation ends and vengeance takes over mass sentiments, leaving America itself in the role of murderous oppressor of those going any other than the American way. (Don't get me wrong, just picture the USA as a Microsoft amongst nations, and then try independence for an attitude. Even the North Coreans start making sense if you do.) B At 16:33 11-1-03 -0500, you wrote: >On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 19:36:03 -0000, John Sparks wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Samuel W. Heywood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 5:41 AM >> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and >> the human rights > >> <snip> >>> There are no civilized countries where the citizens are not allowed >>> to own guns. >> <snip> >> My dictionary defines civilize as "... get rid of barbarous habits..." >> Whilst I do not want to make any claims as to which country is or is not >> civilised, the only way I can see that owning guns might get rid of >> barbarous habits is by the citizens acting as an armed police force. > >Ordinary citizens should not act as a though they were an armed >police force. Such behavior is rightfully condemned as vigilantism. >It is illegal for them to take the law into their own hands. They do >however have the right to defend themselves from violent assaults and >to use whatever force as may be necessary to protect themselves in such >a situation. Criminals prefer to perpetrate their violent assaults in >states and communities where the citizens are not allowed to go about >armed. Statistics show that there is less crime in states and cities >which have less restrictive gun laws to infringe on the rights of the >law-abiding. > >> That >> would only be necessary to control potentially bad citizens. Unfortunately >> they would also have guns! > >> Perhaps the only truly civilised society would be one where everyone was >> allowed to own weapons but no-one wanted to take up the option. > >Of course! > >Sam Heywood >-- >This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser: >http://browser.arachne.cz/ > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:16:41 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Stll no unsubscribe[Fwd: Majordomo results] On Sat, 11 Jan 2003 03:25:34 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote: <snip> > Perhaps those who wish to unsubscribe read and comment once > in a while in the vain hope that somehow, someone will be able to > find the key to the exit door. Sorry Michael, But I must agree with the view-point that it is way past time to fix this.... >>>> unsubscribe arachne >>> Sorry, an error has occurred while processing your request >>> The caretaker of Majordomo ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) has been notified >>> of the problem. - -- Glenn http://arachne.cz/ http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:10 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 8:20 PM Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights > On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, John Sparks wrote: > > > <snip> > > > There are no civilized countries where the citizens are not allowed > > > to own guns. > > <snip> > > My dictionary defines civilize as "... get rid of barbarous habits..." > > Whilst I do not want to make any claims as to which country is or is not > > civilised, the only way I can see that owning guns might get rid of > > barbarous habits is by the citizens acting as an armed police force. That > > would only be necessary to control potentially bad citizens. Unfortunately > > they would also have guns! > > It's a pretty well documented fact that criminals are > deterred by the knowledge that potential victims "might be > armed." > That's kinda what I meant by the citizens acting as an armed police force. One of the roles of the police is to deter crime. What I was implying is that the cure may be worse than the disease. I don't have any stats to back that up, but it seems likely that whilst say robberies might be reduced, more guns means more people are going to get shot whether by criminal acts, accidents or insanity. How many deaths is it worth to prevent how many robberies? You quote some interesting examples. Switzerland may be an exception to my theory, but other factors may be involved John - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/03 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:30:10 -0000 From: "John Sparks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn McCorkle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 20:20:46 -0000, John Sparks wrote: > > > I will have to concede then that in the current USA widespread gun ownership > > is desirable. > > > I grew up in suburban UK and almost no-one had a gun. I never saw anyone > > carrying a gun (other than children's toys) and only knew 2 people who owned > > guns (one an air pistol and one a revolver with no ammunition) Exceptions > > were the military and fairgrounds and the like. 30 years ago in my > > environment people did not get shot, none. No guns = no shootings period. > > > Unfortunately that is no longer true, especially in some areas. But I still > > believe that no guns is a desirable state of affairs. > > Why does there seem to be simply the consentration upon "no guns" as > being the answer to preventing crime ? > > Why not..... > no knives.... no clubs.... no swords.... no weapons of any kind ??? > > Is that not exactly what every dictator through-out history has done ??? > (remove every weapon they could from the hands of the civilians) > > Did removeing weapons from the civilians prevent crime ? > > Or did it simply make it easier for that dictator to > maintain controll over the civilian population ? > > As a debating point why not turn the argument round. Give everyone their own personal H-Bomb. Now that *would* be a deterrent against crime and dictators ;-) Of course you'd need to find some way to survive your own blast, darn there's always a snag. John > > -- > Glenn > http://arachne.cz/ > http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/ > http://www.angelfire.com/id/glenndoom/download.htm > http://www.thispagecannotbedisplayed.com/ > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/03 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:17:13 +1000 (E. Australia Standard Time) From: "Ronald Bleckendorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Comments on the DMCA and te TPCA > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 15:13:34 +0100 (CET), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Menedetter) wrote: >>> Boy ... I can't say how happy I am that I had the luck of not being >>> born in the US ! > SE> Perhaps this is easier for your conscience. I'm proud to be an > SE> American, proud of our American democratic ideals and proud of many > SE> things that Americans have accomplished in the world, > Sure ... > I apologize for having written that. > SE> including helping to rebuild Austria with the Marshall Plan after > SE> World War II. > and this was a really great help. > But it was also a great help for america :) > But it took many intelligent persons to realize this. > And I'm very glad that they were all there. > Both very much helped the opther ones economy. > But for austria there's a another (IMO even bigger help) as the USA allowed > Austria to become a free country. > This was a really courageous move, and I don't know if I would have allowed it > if I would have been america. YES, YES, I too am greatfull to America AND its alies, UK, Canada, Australia and many more for freeing Europe. Marshall Help Plan did improve life conditions very much, boosted world economy and made the world a safer place. And the most wonderfull and courageous move was: leaving after a small occupation to restore order... not only leaving Austria but Germany as well. THANK YOU AMERICA! This was not only an act of courage and well spend money. This was an act of great wisdom. No revange on the former enemy but helping them is the best thing to avoid future battle. However, 'thank you America' does not mean 'don not criticize America'. Friends have to speak to America to keep the US on the wisdom track. Why not lift sanctions to Cuba and help them? A Marshall Plan to Cuba would cost less than making war and would give the US an allie. Why not lift sanctions to Iraq (No weapons of mass destruction and inspection in return)? Sadam will stay but his people will be very greatfull to the US. The costs of such an operation... nothing compared to the huge costs of war. And a large divident for the US: "wisdom returned to the White House" and the world would trust the US again. The world has not seen this wisdom for fifty years now. CU, Bastiaan > This together with the support of east berlin was very, very important. > SE> I think there is another current in America besides the fear and > SE> insecurity provoked by the terrible events of 9-11. A current that > SE> has deep respect for freedom and the Bill of Rights. I think this > SE> current will reassert itself. > I hope so ... > But the trend to limit freedom of citizens is not only an american problem. > We (all) have to fight against it. > SE> Sam Ewalt > CU, Ricsi > -- > |~)o _ _o Richard Menedetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> {ICQ: 7659421} (PGP) > |~\|(__\| -=> I Wonder What The Big Red Button Does...? <=- ------------------------------ End of arachne-digest V1 #2017 ******************************
