arachne-digest Sunday, March 12 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1035
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:47:04 +0100 (MET)
From: Bernie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Charset in insight
Sam Heywood wrote:
>I don't know how you and the other
>folks on this list who do your emails in various languages can deal with the
>problem.
I use the "standard" US "ASCII" table, therefor I never have any problems
with diffrent languages. (�, � and � are in the US "ASCII" table). The only
problem that arises is that ex. RAR get som of the "graphical signs" wrong
- - and that doesn't bother me at all.
>It would be nice to be able to use a single table to be universally
>compatible with all good email readers.
You are forced to use Unicode if you need to be able to mail whoever you
want (assuming the reader has unicode as well). An option would be HTML
here - it's much more wide spread IMHO then Unicode.
>Assuming we both have normal vision, if I should send a string of
>characters from my machine to your machine, you should be able to load those
>characters on your display and see them the same as I do.
I wouldn't, as of yesterday my monitor thinks most things are supposed to
be blue :(
Any ideas on what might be wrong with it are appriciated, I'm still looking
for the guarantee.
>I did not know at the time that I needed to change my code page. I don't
>even understand why code pages are needed to deal with any situation that
>does not involve encryption.
(snip)
>Characters sent should be
>the same as characters received and displayed. Why do we need code pages
>when no encryption or conversion is being made? The exchanging of words
>ought to be made as easy as the exchanging of music.
If I where to send you the following code: 01000011 (in binary) you need to
know how to interpret it - and this is what the code pages do. This code
will be seen as the same since it's a "C", but something starting with a 1
instead of a 0 must be handled in some way since these aren't standard.
//Bernie
http://bernie.arachne.cz/ DOS programs, Star Wars ...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 04:36:17 -0500 (EST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Howard Eisenberger)
Subject: Re: Charset in insight
ISO 8859-1 National Character Set FAQ [condensed]
Michael K. Gschwind
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
1. Which coding should I use for accented characters?
Use the internationally standardized ISO-8859-1 character set to type
accented characters. This character set contains all characters
necessary to type all major (West) European languages. This encoding
is also the preferred encoding on the Internet.
This character set is also used by AmigaDOS, MS-Windows, VMS (DEC MCS
is practically equivalent to ISO 8859-1) and (practically all) UNIX
implementations. MS-DOS normally uses a different character set and
is not compatible with this character set. (It can, however, be
translated to this format with various tools.)
Footnote: Supposedly, IBM code page 819 is fully ISO 8859-1 compliant.
ISO 8859-1 supports the following languages:
Afrikaans, Basque, Catalan, Danish, Dutch, English, Faeroese, Finnish,
French, Galician, German, Icelandic, Irish, Italian, Norwegian,
Portuguese, Spanish and Swedish.
5. Translating between different international character sets.
While ISO 8859-1 is an international standard, not everybody uses this
encoding. Many computers use their own, vendor-specific character sets
(most notably Microsoft for MS-DOS). If you want to edit or view files
written in different encoding, you will have to translate them to an
ISO 8859-1 based representation.
13.3 News and ISO 8859-1
Much as mail, the Usenet news protocol specification is 7 bit based,
but the infrastructure has been upgraded to 8 bit service... Thus,
accented characters are transferred correctly between much of Europe
(and Latin America).
ISO 8859-1 is _the_ standard for typing accented characters in most
newsgroups (may be different for MS-DOS centered newsgroups ;-), and
is preferred in most European news group hierarchies, such as at.* or
de.*
15.4 MS-DOS PCs
MS-DOS PCs normally use a different encoding for accented characters,
so there are two options:
* you can use a terminal emulator which will translate between the
different encodings. If you use the PROCOMM PLUS, TELEMATE and
TELIX modem programs, you can down-load the translation tables
from URL ftp://oak.oakland.edu/pub/msdos/commprog/xlate.zip. (You
need to install CP850 for this to work.)
* you can reconfigure your MS-DOS PC to use an ISO-8859-1 code page.
Either install IBM code page 819 (see section 19), or you can get
the free ISO 8859-X support files from the anonymous ftp archive
ftp://ftp.uni-erlangen.de/pub/doc/ISO/charsets, which contains data
on how to do this (and other ISO-related stuff). The README file
contains an index of the files you need.
Note that many terminal emulations for PCs strip the 8th bit when in
text transmission mode. If you are using such a program to dial up
a computer, you may have to configure your terminal program to
transmit all 8 bits.
18.3 MS DOS
IBM code page 819 _is_ ISO 8859-1. Code Page 850 has the same
characters as ISO 8859-1, BUT the characters are in different
locations (i.e., you can translate 1-to-1, but you do have to
translate the characters.)
18.4 MS-Windows
Microsoft Windows uses an ISO 8859-1 compatible character set (Code
Page 1252), as delivered in the US, Europe (except Eastern Europe) and
Latin America. In Windows 3.1, Microsoft has added additional characters
in the 0x80-0x9F range.
19. Table of ISO 8859-1 Characters
This section gives an overview of the ISO 8859-1 character set. The
ISO 8859-1 character set consists of the following four blocks:
00 19 CONTROL CHARACTERS
20 7E BASIC LATIN
80 9F EXTENDED CONTROL CHARACTERS
A0 FF LATIN-1 SUPPLEMENT
The control characters and basic latin blocks are similar do those
used in the US national variant of ISO 646 (US-ASCII), so they are not
listed here. Nor is the second block of control characters listed,
for which not functions have yet been defined.
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
|Hex | Dec |Car| Description ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993(E)
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
| | | |
| A0 | 160 | | NO-BREAK SPACE
| A1 | 161 | � | INVERTED EXCLAMATION MARK
| A2 | 162 | � | CENT SIGN
| A3 | 163 | � | POUND SIGN
| A4 | 164 | � | CURRENCY SIGN
| A5 | 165 | � | YEN SIGN
| A6 | 166 | � | BROKEN BAR
| A7 | 167 | � | SECTION SIGN
| A8 | 168 | � | DIAERESIS
| A9 | 169 | � | COPYRIGHT SIGN
| AA | 170 | � | FEMININE ORDINAL INDICATOR
| AB | 171 | � | LEFT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
| AC | 172 | � | NOT SIGN
| AD | 173 | � | SOFT HYPHEN
| AE | 174 | � | REGISTERED SIGN
| AF | 175 | � | MACRON
| | | |
| B0 | 176 | � | DEGREE SIGN
| B1 | 177 | � | PLUS-MINUS SIGN
| B2 | 178 | � | SUPERSCRIPT TWO
| B3 | 179 | � | SUPERSCRIPT THREE
| B4 | 180 | � | ACUTE ACCENT
| B5 | 181 | � | MICRO SIGN
| B6 | 182 | � | PILCROW SIGN
| B7 | 183 | � | MIDDLE DOT
| B8 | 184 | � | CEDILLA
| B9 | 185 | � | SUPERSCRIPT ONE
| BA | 186 | � | MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR
| BB | 187 | � | RIGHT-POINTING DOUBLE ANGLE QUOTATION MARK
| BC | 188 | � | VULGAR FRACTION ONE QUARTER
| BD | 189 | � | VULGAR FRACTION ONE HALF
| BE | 190 | � | VULGAR FRACTION THREE QUARTERS
| BF | 191 | � | INVERTED QUESTION MARK
| | | |
| C0 | 192 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| C1 | 193 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| C2 | 194 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| C3 | 195 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH TILDE
| C4 | 196 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
| C5 | 197 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE
| C6 | 198 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE AE
| C7 | 199 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
| C8 | 200 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| C9 | 201 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| CA | 202 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| CB | 203 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH DIAERESIS
| CC | 204 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| CD | 205 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| CE | 206 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| CF | 207 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DIAERESIS
| | | |
| D0 | 208 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER ETH
| D1 | 209 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH TILDE
| D2 | 210 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| D3 | 211 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| D4 | 212 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| D5 | 213 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH TILDE
| D6 | 214 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS
| D7 | 215 | � | MULTIPLICATION SIGN
| D8 | 216 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER O WITH STROKE
| D9 | 217 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| DA | 218 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| DB | 219 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| DC | 220 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS
| DD | 221 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER Y WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| DE | 222 | � | LATIN CAPITAL LETTER THORN
| DF | 223 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
| | | |
| E0 | 224 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| E1 | 225 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| E2 | 226 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| E3 | 227 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH TILDE
| E4 | 228 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS
| E5 | 229 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE
| E6 | 230 | � | LATIN SMALL LIGATURE AE
| E7 | 231 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER C WITH CEDILLA
| E8 | 232 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| E9 | 233 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| EA | 234 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| EB | 235 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH DIAERESIS
| EC | 236 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| ED | 237 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| EE | 238 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| EF | 239 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER I WITH DIAERESIS
| | | |
| F0 | 240 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER ETH
| F1 | 241 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER N WITH TILDE
| F2 | 242 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| F3 | 243 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| F4 | 244 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| F5 | 245 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH TILDE
| F6 | 246 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS
| F7 | 247 | � | DIVISION SIGN
| F8 | 248 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH OBLIQUE BAR
| F9 | 249 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH GRAVE ACCENT
| FA | 250 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| FB | 251 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT
| FC | 252 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER U WITH DIAERESIS
| FD | 253 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH ACUTE ACCENT
| FE | 254 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER THORN
| FF | 255 | � | LATIN SMALL LETTER Y WITH DIAERESIS
+----+-----+---+------------------------------------------------------
23. Home location of this document
23.1 www
You can find this and other i18n documents under URL
http://www.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at/mike/i18n.html.
23.2 ftp
The most recent version of this document is available via anonymous
ftp from ftp.vlsivie.tuwien.ac.at under the file name
/pub/8bit/FAQ-ISO-8859-1
- --
Howard Eisenberger
... DOS TCP/IP * <URL:http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~ag221/dosppp.html>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 02:33:25 -0800
From: "Gregory J. Feig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Charset in insight
On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:47:04 +0100 (MET), Bernie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
- -------------snip----------
> I wouldn't, as of yesterday my monitor thinks most things are supposed to
> be blue :(
> Any ideas on what might be wrong with it are appriciated, I'm still looking
> for the guarantee.
Bernie ....do the usual.....check your settings......check with another
monitor.....check with another video card......simple.<g g g>
....gregy
- -- This mail was written by user of Arachne, the Ultimate Internet Client
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:49:25 +0100 (CET)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Richard Menedetter)
Subject: Charset in insight (LONG, possibly OT)
Hi
"Samuel W. Heywood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> SH> With the American ISO that I am using, HTML entity values are
>> SH> not the same as ascii values.
>> Sorry ... but I'm not able to understand this sentence ... :)
SH> By HTML entity values I am speaking of the ALT + NUMs as referenced in
SH> the table found at the URL:
SH> http://utopia.knoware.nl/users/schluter/doc/tags/characters.html
Look what is in the first half of the page:
'Table of printable Latin-1 Character codes'
So your 'HTML Entity' is latin-1 (aka iso-8859-1)
Step by step we get closer to the solution :)
SH> By the American ISO I mean the DOS system default.
OK this is codepage 437.
ISO and DOS have _nothing_ in common.
SH> It doesn't matter what I call it as long as you know what I'm talking
SH> about.
Yes :) but I really wasn't sure ... I was just guessing.
(but it seems that I guessed right)
>> First of all there is no american ISO ...
>> ISO stands for _INTERNATIONAL_ Standards Organization
>> HTML Entities are such things like ä -> parsed as �
SH> OK, OK. Now I understand what you are talking about. I am talking
SH> about the ALT + NUMs. I don't know the technical term for the ALT +
SH> NUMs.
There is no ... it depends on the codepage you use ...
eg alt 065 is always A, but alt num 123 depends on the codepage.
So you simply tell us what codepage you use.
If you haven't changed that than it is the default codepage 437.
>> If you write the mail in a correctly configured insight, than it
>> should be readable.
SH> I have found that as long as I use the ALT + NUMs as provided in the
SH> referenced table, the characters will be viewed correctly within
SH> Insight regardless of what character set I specify in my Arachne
SH> setup.
IMHO the default fonts are latin-1 fonts.
The character set specification is simply makeup .. IMHO.
But I don't use insight, so I'm not sure.
SH> If, however, I should use the ALT + NUMs provided in the "standard"
SH> ascii table, to include the "standard extended ascii table", then the
SH> characters will not be readable within Insight.
you speak about cp437.
Sure ... because cp437 is not equal to iso latin-1.
On the internet the iso latin family is widely used, so it is a very good
idea to use this !!
>> If you install the stuff that I zipped up, you will end up with a
>> iso latin1 in DOS. So if you can read it in DOS, and send it away
>> with the correct charset header it should be readable to anybody
>> with an average mail reader (or a good one :)
SH> But this would seem to work out only if my correspondent had his code
SH> page set up the same as mine.
No ... there are 2 possibilities.
On other OSes you simply use a font, that displays the characters
correctly. (you look into the header, and use the font specified there.)
SH> I don't want to have to change my DOS setup and my code pages and my
SH> keyboard maps every time I alternate beween reading or writing in one
SH> language and another.
Use another OS ...
Sorry this is the only advice I can give you, when you frequently use
different languages, which are not fully covered by iso latin1. (see the
url that you have sent in the first part of the message, for which
characters are covered)
If you only need latin1, you can simply use the default cp437, switch to
latin1 in a batchfile, load your mailreader, switch to cp437 - ready
SH> I don't know how you and the other folks on this list who do your
SH> emails in various languages can deal with the problem.
simply use a mailreader that can either
1) use different fonts in different languages
2) use translation tables.
to 2 eg there is � in cp437, but on another position.
So my mailreader has translation tables, and corrects this.
SH> If I use the ALT + NUMs provided in the table referenced by the URL,
SH> then the message will be readable within Insight,
and all other sane and good mailreader
SH> but it would not be readable with Net-Tamer, which is also considered
SH> a very good mail reader.
If it can't display iso latin-1 (defacto standrad) than I consider it not
to be a good mail reader.
It seems that it simply doesn't care about codepages.
and uses the codepage provided by DOS.
SH> In order to read the message correctly with Net-Tamer I would
SH> have to use the extended ascii characters found in the "standard"
SH> table rather than the table provided by the URL.
Even that is not true.
If I would use Nettamer they would be not correctly displayed, as I don't
use cp437, but cp850. (dos latin1)
SH> The "standard" table is the one provided by popular text editors such
SH> as PEDIT and QEDIT and found in US textbooks.
the editors present you with a table that shows YOUR _current_ codepage.
SH> Whether that table should be referred to as the "standard" one is
SH> another question altogether.
It is codepage 437
SH> Conclusion: The table provided by the URL works for Insight, but not
SH> for Net-Tamer. The "standard" table works for Net-Tamer, but not for
SH> Insight.
Because nettamer simply ignores and does not care about that topic.
Nettamer seems to be written by an american for americans ...
If you write your mail in iso latin-1 than it is displayed correctly in 95%
of the cases.
(all windows mailreaders, all linux mailreaders, all mac mailreaders)
Only very old DOS programs have problems with it.
SH> It would be nice to be able to use a single table to be universally
SH> compatible with all good email readers.
There _IS_ one ...
>> You can't use ascii values for 'special' characters, because there
>> ARE NO ascii values for these characters !!!
SH> I meant of course "extended ascii values" as given in the "standard"
SH> table.
There is no standard table.
There is a default characterset for DOS wich is codepage 437.
>> SH> I am merely suggesting that everybody should adopt one universal
>> SH> numbering scheme for all the characters used in all of the
>> SH> world's languages.
>> There IS such a scheme ... as I and many others have already written
>> here .... goto http://www.unicode.org
SH> Yes, I've looked into that. It sure would be good if they could
SH> develop Unicode for DOS. Some list members think it is possible.
I don't belong to this group.
IMHO DOS does not have the capabilities to do so.
Specially DOS programs can use the display directly, and so they wouldn't
car about unicode, and mess up everything. (as Michael P. already said)
>> SH> Please examine the characters below from within Insight and also
>> SH> from within the DOS console. I think we all can agree that this
>> SH> is a big problem.
>> Not really ... this is like I put my tape into the cd-player and I
>> couldn't hear anything.
SH> Bad analogy. Tape players and cd players are different types of
SH> machines, data is recorded on different types of media, the tape
SH> player uses analog technology and the CD player digital technology.
This about covers the difference between a modern OS and DOS :)))))
(sorry ... I like DOS, but ... :)
>> SH> BTW, I would be curious to know how this message looks to
>> SH> someone who is reading it with Outlook or Eudora, or any other
>> SH> popular Winblows program.
>> OK here the facts:
>> You state in your header that you used iso latin1.
>> So every sane Email program (including windows, nextstep, amiga ...)
>> will display it using an iso latin1 font.
SH> This is not the case. Some email readers such as Net-Tamer, Barebones
SH> DOS, and NetMail DOS don't care what the header says. The message
SH> would be displayed as though it were seen from the DOS console.
But this is the problem of THESE PROGRAMS.
If there is a sign that says don't smoke (and there are many explosives
near), and you do smoke, and BOOOOM, that's your problem.
Same applies to codepages.
If you know what codepage you should use, but don't use it ... HMMM
SH> You are saying that good email readers actually read the header and
SH> display the message in accordance with what the header says.
YES ... exactly
SH> Arachne doesn't care what the header says.
I nevers said that Insight is considered good by me ... :)
(Arachne browser is GREAT !!)
SH> If I should send the same message with the default ISO header instead
SH> of with the Latin-1 header,
ISO is an organization that 'produces' standards.
One of them is the iso-8859-x family. it's most prominent member is latin1.
(iso-8859-1)
SH> the message would still be viewed the same from within Insight.
Nevertheless Insight is much better than NT, because it displays iso-latin1
and US-ascii correctly. (And this covers most communicatiosn on the net)
>> So the 1. part is displayed correctly .... (in every sane mail
>> program)
SH> Part 1 is displayed correctly by Insight, but incorrectly by email
SH> programs that display text the same as the DOS console.
Sure ... because these programs ignore any charset line.
This behaviour is NOT considered sane by me.
>> and the 2. part (written with the standard DOS codepage 437, but
>> wrongly assumed to be latin1) is displayed incorrectly.
SH> The DOS console doesn't assume anything. It doesn't convert
SH> anything. It only shows you what can be seen from its own vantage
SH> point.
Exactly
SH> DOS applications can be written to read headers and convert
SH> characters, but the DOS console doesn't see anything beyond its own
SH> vantage point.
yes
SH> If you have a code page loaded, then you are probably running some
SH> kind of application to change the way DOS displays text.
SH> Am I right?
hmm ... I don't understand, if you load a different CP, you don't need an
additional application.
My mailreader works so that you tell him what CP it should use for export,
which codepage is the local one, and you provide some rules how to convert
them.
SH> In a "normal" machine, the keys you press, or the key combinations
SH> you press will create their corresponding characters in the message.
NO !!!
The corresponding characters are NOT necessarily CODED equally.
EG I press a this generates code 065. in cp437, and nearly all other CPs.
BUT it might be possible that in cp ricsi-1 (imaginery)
it displays as � and a is 001.
So you have to translate code 001 in ricsi-1 to code 065 if viewed with
cp437 !!!
SH> These characters should correspond to the way the keys are labeled or
SH> to a universal standard set of numeric designators to which they are
SH> assigned.
There aren't even keys for all characters ...
where is the � key ??
SH> Characters sent should be the same as characters received
SH> and displayed.
You don't send charsets.
You send codes.
And these codes are interpreted by the codepage of the receiving party.
So it is possible that codes are misinterpreted.
So you tell the receiver how you meant to interpret it.
(eg charset iso-latin1)
So you have provided enough information to display the characters
correctly. If they don't do so, it's THEIR problem, not yours.
SH> Why do we need code pages when no encryption or conversion is being
SH> made?
See above.
Ancryption has nothing to do with codepages !!
SH> The exchanging of words ought to be made as easy as the exchanging of
SH> music.
Yes ... but you can't listen to a modern CD in a 20 year old tape deck !
And DOS can be compared to a tapedeck ... it by itself offers very few
services by it's own.
SH> Sam Heywood
CU, Ricsi
- --
Richard Menedetter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [ICQ: 7659421] {RSA-PGP Key avail.}
- -=> Please return stewardess to original upright position <=-
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 06:03:40 -0500 (EST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Eric S. Emerson)
Subject: Re: Blue on monitor screen
Bernie wrote:
> <snip>
>I wouldn't, as of yesterday my monitor thinks most things are supposed to
>be blue :(
>Any ideas on what might be wrong with it are appriciated, I'm still looking
>for the guarantee.
> <snip>
>//Bernie
>http://bernie.arachne.cz/ DOS programs, Star Wars ...
>
Hi Bernie,
I have a monitor that seems to exhibit the same
symptoms. The left side of the screen starts out with normal
color, but as the trace continues toward the the right it
picks up more blue. And, when it approaches the right side of
the screen the colors are overwhelmed with blue. Also, the
horizontal size is slightly affected.
I went inside the monitor and tried to adjust it but
I could not fix it. I assumed something had failed or was
weak. Maybe a bad electrolytic condenser? I have no oscil-
oscope or specs for the monitor, so I gave up and use it
as it is. It's been that way for 1 or 2 years now and stays
about the same.
Eric
- --
__________
| Ayrx |__\_ Eric S. Emerson
| :~_: ! [EMAIL PROTECTED]
`~(*)~~~~(*)~' `````````````````````````
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 06:30:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: arachne-digest V1 #1032
>
Hi, Michael:
It seems to me that keeping the bad guys out is preferable to trying
to throw them out after they are in. And if you have some sort of
existing force to resist an invasion, it might make the bad guys
think twice about trying to come in.
Henry Carmichael
>
Remember the Prague spring 1968, when Czechoslovakia tried "socialism with a
human face", and in August, the Warsaw Pact countries, led by the USSR, came in
with tanks and reestablished order, meaning hard-line Communism? Maybe the USSR
would have thought twice if the people of Czechoslovakia were better equipped to
blow up those tanks? Or would the Warsaw Pact countries have bombed
Czechoslovakia to rubble as Russia did more recently in Chechnya?
Who knows what might happen with Russia in the future, especially if the market
economy runs into trouble? What if somebody like Vladimir Zhirinovsky comes
into power?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 06:30:09 -0500 (EST)
From: "Thomas Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: In Army value of cosine can reach 4.
Actually, the value of cosine can reach or exceed 4, if you're using complex
numbers.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:20:13 +0100 (MET)
From: Bernie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Charset in insight
Gregy wrote:
>> I wouldn't, as of yesterday my monitor thinks most things are supposed to
>> be blue :(
>> Any ideas on what might be wrong with it are appriciated, I'm still looking
>> for the guarantee.
>
>Bernie ....do the usual.....check your settings......check with another
>monitor.....check with another video card......simple.<g g g>
Great ideas - unfortunately I've already tried them, namely another monitor
(non-blue result) and this monitor in another computer (stiil blue).
Ah well, as long as I don't want to view any images it's not so bad.
//Bernie
http://bernie.arachne.cz/ DOS programs, Star Wars ...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 11:33:22 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Blue on monitor screen
I have a similar problem (I think). My screen likes to go all blue
occassionally. If I bang on it, it comes back teh way it is
supposed to be. The only explanation I have is the monitor is
going bad (mine is like 6 years old) and the red coloring is going
out.
Matt
On 12 Mar 00, at 6:03, Eric S. Emerson wrote:
>
>
> Bernie wrote:
> > <snip>
> >I wouldn't, as of yesterday my monitor thinks most things are
> >supposed to be blue :( Any ideas on what might be wrong with it are
> >appriciated, I'm still looking for the guarantee.
> > <snip>
> >//Bernie
> >http://bernie.arachne.cz/ DOS programs, Star Wars ...
> >
>
> Hi Bernie,
> I have a monitor that seems to exhibit the same
> symptoms. The left side of the screen starts out with normal
> color, but as the trace continues toward the the right it
> picks up more blue. And, when it approaches the right side of
> the screen the colors are overwhelmed with blue. Also, the
> horizontal size is slightly affected.
> I went inside the monitor and tried to adjust it but
> I could not fix it. I assumed something had failed or was
> weak. Maybe a bad electrolytic condenser? I have no oscil-
> oscope or specs for the monitor, so I gave up and use it
> as it is. It's been that way for 1 or 2 years now and stays
> about the same.
>
> Eric
>
> --
> __________
> | Ayrx |__\_ Eric S. Emerson
> | :~_: ! [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> `~(*)~~~~(*)~' `````````````````````````
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 17:25:49 +0000
From: Charles Boisvert and Catherine Clinton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Charset in insight
At 02:33 12/03/00 -0800, you wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Mar 2000 08:47:04 +0100 (MET), Bernie
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I wouldn't, as of yesterday my monitor thinks most things are supposed to
>> be blue :(
>> Any ideas on what might be wrong with it are appriciated, I'm still looking
>> for the guarantee.
>
>Bernie ....do the usual.....check your settings......check with another
>monitor.....check with another video card......simple.<g g g>
>....gregy
>
Video card? Eh? Monitors have three wires for red, green and blue. If
everything's blue then two of the wires have come off. Kick it (well - not
too hard) and they'll come back. You could check the connections as well.
I teach in a college where somebody thought it was clever to save money on
the hardware. I kick monitors every day.
Charles
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:23:48
From: "Dale Mentzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Blue on monitor screen
On 12 Mar 00 at 11:33, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>I have a similar problem (I think). My screen likes to go all blue
>>occassionally. If I bang on it, it comes back teh way it is
>>supposed to be. The only explanation I have is the monitor is
>>going bad (mine is like 6 years old) and the red coloring is going
>>out.
>>
>>Matt
This sounds similar to a Packard Bell VGA monitor I got from someones
trash a couple of years ago. On this one, the blue was intermittent.
Banging on it would cause it to work erratically. If you are
comfortable opening the monitor and working around the high voltages
present (always with the power cord disconnected, of course) then you
might want to examine the solder joints on the CRT connector that is
plugged on the end of the tube (CRT). This board drives the 3 color
guns and on the PB monitor I mentioned several of the solder joints
on the tube socket that is attached to this board were cracked. A
simple touchup with a soldering iron and some fresh solder restored
the monitor to proper operation. Even if you are uncomfortable doing
this, and you should ONLY do this if you have some experience, you
might know someone with the skills who could examine these joints and
repair as needed. There is also sometimes some shielding that will
have to be removed to see these joints. Again, don't do this if you
are at all in doubt about your ability to stay away from the high
voltage in there. These voltages are present in some places even
after the monitor has been turned off for a long period. Please be
careful. HTH.
Regards,
Dale Mentzer
Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.
This mail written by a user of Arachne, the DOS Internet Client
WWWWW World Wide Web Without Windows
http://home.arachne.cz Arachne DOS Browser Home Page
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:09:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Norman C. Leet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Newbie Post Test
Just a newbie making a test post to the arachne mailing list.
- -Norm
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:03:54 -0500
From: Clarence Verge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Blue on monitor screen
Eric S. Emerson wrote:
> The left side of the screen starts out with normal
> color, but as the trace continues toward the the right it
> picks up more blue. And, when it approaches the right side of
> the screen the colors are overwhelmed with blue. Also, the
> horizontal size is slightly affected.
> I went inside the monitor and tried to adjust it but
> I could not fix it. I assumed something had failed or was
> weak. Maybe a bad electrolytic condenser? I have no oscil-
> oscope or specs for the monitor, so I gave up and use it
> as it is. It's been that way for 1 or 2 years now and stays
> about the same.
Hi Eric;
It sounds like it needs to be degaussed. At one time it must have been
subjected to a strong magnetic field. OR, you have attached a magnetic
device to the monitor.
I don't know whether these monitors have automatic degaussing like TV
sets - but it seems like they would. Maybe it doesn't work anymore.
Remove any magnetized attachments, turn the monitor off for 5-10 min
and turn it back on.
- - Clarence Verge
- --
- - Help stamp out FATWARE. As a start visit: http://home.arachne.cz/
- --
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:37:43 -0500
From: Roger Turk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Blue on monitor screen
Dale Mentzer wrote:
>>This sounds similar to a Packard Bell VGA monitor I got from someones
trash a couple of years ago. On this one, the blue was intermittent.
Banging on it would cause it to work erratically. If you are
comfortable opening the monitor and working around the high voltages
present (always with the power cord disconnected, of course) then you
might want to examine the solder joints on the CRT connector that is
plugged on the end of the tube (CRT). This board drives the 3 color
guns and on the PB monitor I mentioned several of the solder joints
on the tube socket that is attached to this board were cracked. A
simple touchup with a soldering iron and some fresh solder restored
the monitor to proper operation. Even if you are uncomfortable doing
this, and you should ONLY do this if you have some experience, you
might know someone with the skills who could examine these joints and
repair as needed. There is also sometimes some shielding that will
have to be removed to see these joints. Again, don't do this if you
are at all in doubt about your ability to stay away from the high
voltage in there. These voltages are present in some places even
after the monitor has been turned off for a long period. Please be
careful. HTH.<<
This reminds me of two things: In the early days of color TV, RCA was using
a poor grade of solder in the pins on their tubes which would break down
after a couple of years. An *honest* repairman told me that more new tubes
were sold when all they needed to do was sweat in a good grade of solder,
which he did on site for only the charge for a service call.
The second thing that I am reminded of is when I was in the U.S. Navy and
going to Radar School. We were cautioned that there were high voltage
capacitors in the radar equipment that did not always discharge when the
equipment was shut down and that before going into any piece of radar, we
should ground out all capacitors with a grounding rod and go over all visible
connections before we cautiously entered the equipment. They had one piece
of equipment which was set up so the capacitors would not discharge so that
we could see how much zap the capacitors held. That demonstration made a
believer out of me such that I made a grounding rod and use it religiously
whenever I go into any piece of electronic equipment.
Roger Turk
Tucson, Arizona USA
------------------------------
End of arachne-digest V1 #1035
******************************
