Hi L.D., Geez, wasn't aiming to start a frenzy :) After all, it's all just software eh <g> Lest we forget, I'm still a big supporter of Arachne. It just is a bit surreal (since folks have posted here on this list what level of hits Arachne represents on many sites) to sometimes think the website folks are intentionally trying to make it hard for 'average' users. Average would be a good size percentage of folks on the web, or visiting such and such a site wouldn't it? <<L.D. Best: Since UseNet is strictly text, I don't think it is fair to say a "browser" is incomplete without it.>> Arachne has not, as I recall been advertised as 'only a browser' (if so, how did that email client sneak in <g>). The Usenet client in Arachne is sort of a running joke with Michael at this point. In the 'we're working on it' section of the documentation that came with each Arachne version it would move down in priority each time. It was absolutely, positively going to be in v 1.11 of Arachne at one point. Usenet was the missing link for me to be able to drop NetTamer from regular use. :) You did notice the ;) in the previous message? <g> I was glad to see Michael post that Script supportin (which I had honestly expected to see in v 1.60) is still going to happen in Arachne. <<Competitive? I don't think that's the word you meant, is it?>> Yes. The more Arachne can keep current with features and standards and still do so with a smaller footprint and system requirement than the bigbrand browsers the more notice it would seem it would get and the more users. Yes it's tough to do, but that's where the challenge is,eh :) E-Commerce (i.e. why investors should help me build my site and other interesting stories) bucks are part of what drives a good deal of software development and website design for a large number of folks. That wasn't so much the case 1, 2 or 3 years back. For sites where there are sales transaction then scripting and security features can make a difference in being able to get the transactions processed to help their customers. All I'm saying is that Arachne's present feature set isn't one that can support some of those features. That's not the web designer's fault :) CSS is a W3C standard (and is used and misused) just as using script in a web page is and other features and it takes time and extra costs to not take advantage of some of the newer standards when designing and maintaining a website. With XML both can be accomodated but it still is effort to do so. (shrug) << The customer is always right. If you have explained that people are less likely to go to a site which requires 4 minutes to download,>> Sure the customer is right, but no one gets them all :) There are business decisions made on target audiences (including their browsers) that will vary based on product offered on a website (streaming movies don't attract too many folks on a 26.4K connection no matter what browser for example) and the investment it takes in time and talent to please the largest reasonable customer base with the resources available. The use of scripts does not, of itself cause slower page loading, they can be helpful to avoid doing that. Folks who are shopping like to see the merchandise. You don't need to put the whole catalog on one page but it does help to have it available when folks do want it :) The sizes of webpages considered 'acceptable' does seem to be inching up from 30K max to 50K max to 100K max etc as time goes on. That doesn't make me particularly happy either :) <<Isn't the point of an on-line sales outlet to make sales, rather than amuse passers by with fancy animations and background music?>> Depends on what you're selling and your audience. Given a choice between a t.v. infomercial and an entertaining t.v. show with ads, which one gets the most viewers <g> <<Are you saying that CompuServe won't allow a simple 'any browser' setup?>> Yes. The CompuServe forums are now free to the public if you have a browser that can do Javascript (that design has been in place for over 2 years) and to login you use an https connection. <<If that is the case, then why would anyone stay solely with CompuServe/AOL??>> Well 20 million do supposedly, but with CompuServe, which except for ownership isn't AOL, it's an ISP that does still support DOS users for dialup on their very large network and there is a DOS client you can use still without a browser for the forums. <<Since it's apparent that html without javascript can recognize a browser and it's version [how else would Arachne home page know I'm running Arachne in latest version] why do you need js for that?>> There is scripting (features) on the server side :) <<why should a customer be treated differently if calling after midnight EDT or afternoon from Hawaii?>> Personalization to show the time on messages etc in the time zone they are using not where the website is located is one use. <<can't a 'quick expire' cookie of some sort do the same thing?>> Just like scripting accepting cookies can be turned off by users :) <<when a cookie for a site expires does the site send a new cookie of the same name which overwrites the original, or do we end up with both cookies?>> Can depend on the browser and the site. I've emptied the cookie <<after the recent ILOVEYOU fiasco that cost billions of dollars>> Some day I'd like to see those 'estimates' documented. I wonder where that all shows up and who actually pays those billions. I could use one as long as they're lost, perhaps I can find one <g> Bob Buckland ?:-)
