On Sun, 21 Jan 2001, Bernie wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> > The referer which Arachne reports is the last site Arachne
> >visited, regardless of whether the two sites are linked or
> >connected in anyway.
>
> So does Netscape (3.x does it anyway AFAICR).
Nope.
localhost - - [21/Jan/2001:17:42:50 -0500] "GET / HTTP/1.0" 200 2439
"-" "Mozilla/3.04 (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i586)"
> IMHO the "referer" string is
> completly useless since it can mean anything at all,
No, it can't mean anything at all. It identifies what page
"referred" the browser to this page. That is its function.
> and therefor servers
> that trust it when allowing access to files are just plain stupid. In case
> you haven't come across it some servers that offer "free" (read: ad-filled)
> personal webpages doesn't allow for external links to go to the pages.
For instance, click http://stackman.www6.50megs.com/0010/DCP00357c.JPG
and you'll get an "access forbidden" message.
However, click http://stackman.www6.50megs.com/0010/ and you'll
get a directory listing (with ad). If you then click on the
DCP00357c.JPG, you'll get redirected to a cgi-bin which will
happily show you the photo... along with another ad. These pages
don't use a referer (I did all the above with referer disabled).
I haven't tried, but I suspect if cookies were disabled, that
wouldn't be the case.
> In one way this would be good, but it often makes them unusable without
> Internet Explorer since that browser doesn't do it the same way as Netscape
> does.
I've studied a LOT of server logs, and I've never seen any
difference in the way those two browsers handle referers.
When I was a Delphi forum manager, I used to check web logs
to see which search engines we scored highest in. Most links
do come from search engines. Then some were blank (the URL was
typed in, or copy'n'pasted), and some were from other web pages.
Some referers even contain e-mail message ID's or local web
pages. For instance, many of the referers I saw on Delphi had
something like file:/home/stackman/jump-off.html. This is
where the link was.
When the sites were changed from www.delphi.com to www0.delphi.com,
I used the referer logs to find out which web sites were still
using the old www address, and mailed them to inform them that
soon there would be no forwarding, and if they wanted their
link to continue working, they'd need to change it.
In each of the samples below, the first page is the "home"
page of the browser. There should be no referer, and there
isn't. The second log entry is an item linked to from the
first. The referer should reflect that. It does in both.
So both NS 3.04 and IE 4 in Win'95 also correctly handle
referers.
witch - - [21/Jan/2001:17:53:32 -0500] "GET
/twovoyagers/devel/yarn_enter.php3 HTTP/1.0" 200 8341 "-" "Mozilla/3.04
(Win95; I)"
witch - - [21/Jan/2001:18:04:09 -0500] "POST
/twovoyagers/devel/yarn_correct.php3 HTTP/1.0" 200 635
"http://wizard/twovoyagers/devel/yarn_enter.php3" "Mozilla/3.04
(Win95; I)"
witch - - [21/Jan/2001:17:55:25 -0500] "GET /twovoyagers/ HTTP/1.1" 200
2197 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.0; Windows 95)"
witch - - [21/Jan/2001:17:57:40 -0500] "GET
/twovoyagers/devel/graphics.gif HTTP/1.1" 200 1829
"http://wizard/twovoyagers/devel/html-2.html" "Mozilla/4.0
(compatible; MSIE 4.0; Windows 95)"
> Of course fixing this would be nice, but it's hardly anything that Michael
> or anyone else should put much effort into IMHO regardless that it might
> not take much time to add it (atleast I don't think it would).
With all other browsers I'm familiar with, the referer reports
what page linked you to the present page. If you type the URL
there's no referer.
With Arachne, *every* site you visit is informed of the last site
you visited. For webmasters who keep track of who is linking to
them, Arachne is misleading.
Arachnoids might not want www.government.agency.gov knowing
the last site they visited was www.avoid.paying.taxes.org.
Or maybe they don't want www.health.insurance.com knowing the
last site they visited was www.some.chronic.disease.org.
No other browser will expose this... but Arachne will.
Sure, if you know Arachne doesn't handle referers correctly,
and you don't wish every webmaster knowing where you were last,
you turn it off... and all Arachnoids do know this, don't they...
:-/
- Steve
