Thanks for your viewpoint, Mithgol.I'm just an ordainary user so I don't know the details of what and why. I do know that Arachne coughs and chokes frequently.
As for web design, my preferance is for simple presentation of essential information. Webmasters seem to prefer wrapping text in layers of unecessary design that delays or prevents it being read. That's my beef. Yeah, it'd be great if Arachne gets upgraded. I hope it happens. Sam Ewalt On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:33:37 +0300, Mithgol the Webmaster wrote: > On Thu Jan 24 00:36:23 2002, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 02:23:32 +0000 Bastiaan wrote: >> <snip> >> > In practise I encounter 3 problems: >> > 1- Java Script >> > 2- HTTPS Security >> > 3- No frames... that is what some webpages tell me. >> > "Sorry your browser does not support frames: entry denied" >> > IIRC Arachne does support frames and i am using just one frame on my own > homepage and Arachne is showing this correctly. Is this one of Bill Gates > tricks? >> Yes, this is one of Bill Gates' tricks. Many webmasters use Micro$oft Front > Page as their web page editor. This web page development program writes code > especially designed to lock out many browsers which would otherwise be > perfectly capable of displaying the page. Upon entering the web site the > browser ID string is read. If your browser isn't among those listed at the > site then you will be referred to a page having an error message saying that > your browser doesn't support frames or one saying that your browser either > doesn't support cookies or you have turned cookies off. If you would examine > the source found at such web sites I think you would get the general gist of > the code and understand how this trick is played on you. You can trick them > too. > There is just the only way to implement such a dirty trick in source HTML, and > that tricky webmaster has to use JavaScript to read the browser ID (and even > manufacturer and version!) through some properties of certain standard > JavaScript objects. Sometimes cookies are read through JavaScript on the site, > so browser should be really JavaScript-capable and even the whole trick seems > not so dirty. >> In using the Opera browser for Windows or when using the DOS text >> browsers Bobcat or Lynx386 you can set up your browser so that it >> will send the server a fake browser ID string so that the server >> will think it is being accessed by MSIE or NetScape. Then you won't get > locked out. I wish Michael would implement such a feature in Arachne so that > we could trick the web sites that try to lock us out by referring us to false > error messages. > Now "user agent ID string" is what you're talking about. It has actually > nothing to do with HTML or JavaScript; user-agent analysis require some > server-side programming, since the server environment is the only thing > affected with user agent ID string, no matter whether it is actually fake or > not. I guess that's another trick, and FrontPage won't help anyone with this > one. At least won't help until the webmaster uses Microsoft Active Server > Pages, and also Microsoft Internet Information Server. Anyway, you'll never see > server scripts in the hypertext you browse, because server scripts are > interpreted by server directly and they are never sent to your client software. > So, the result will differ. Arachne may send fake browser ID to the server, I > know Arachne actually does send something false like "Arachne/4" when it is > actually 1.70rev3. Michael may change it to "Moziila/4", so server's trust will > be betrayed. > If Microsoft FrontPage goes into play, and dirty JavaScript tricks are used, > then Arachne should also have JavaScript implemented, and have fake > navigator.appName and navigator.appVersion properties. > But if the site uses cookies and they are read trough JavaScript, then you > should know that those error messages were not false, and they were for your > own protection. It's always easy for a webmaster to see whether both JavaScript > and cookies are supported. And, anyway, it is silly to pretend to be > JavaScript-capable; Arachne may simulate these abilities, but it will result in > an immediate crash when the server rely upon it. > What we actually need is JavaScript v1.1 implemented in Arachne. > Otherwise it will be just Michael Polak's tricks vs. Bill Gates's. > On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:49:08 +0300, Vasily Zatsepin wrote: >> you can make an attempt to play with PTS-DOS32 Demo available > Is that a PhysTechSoft product? Yes, I guess. > Made in Dolgoprudny ;-) >> It's pity but this stuff (installation instruction) is in Russian. >> I'm sorry. > You should be also sorry and full of pity because of the 7th bug > listed at my Unofficial Arachne Buglist, where CP1251.APM goes > into play. > http://mithgol.pp.ru/Master/Bug-list/index.htm#Titlebar �don't know the details of what and why. I do know that Arachne > Arachne is Michael's but the Russian APM fonts are yours, and they > really DO interfere. He or you should do something. May you reduce > your CP1251 fontsize similar to Arachne v1.65 (and higher) Western? > Or should _he_ clean Arachne's titlebar in more accurate way? > On 23 Jan 2002 07:57:31 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote: >> Ignoring would certainly be better than crashing! But I just want >> to get the information I'm looking for when I encounter js. >> I just want my browser to render the page without choking >> and coughing. > I guess there's no choking and coughing in Arachne, any JavaScript > is ignored without having user notified. >> I could do without js and CSS and all that other crap. But >> it seems the webmasters can't resist. That's the problem. > Yeah, we can't. Cascading Style Sheets are very useful, and they > really REDUCE download size of the site. Using CSS, we can get rid > of numerous changes in font size, weight, family, etc. > Arachne should have at least limited CSS abilities. CSS Layer One, > for example. And a correct Document Object Model. > And it already does have _some_ CSS abilities. > See also my Arachne-related CSS rendering analysis at > http://mithgol.pp.ru/Master/Bug-list/index.htm#CSS >> I'd be happy with plain text and pictures. No buttons or bars or >> flags and rollover salutes. I can read. > I can agree with that. But rollover usually degrade gracefully, > so you'll get a simple button when JavaScript is off. > But there are more strange things... > Some webmasters cheat, they even use JavaScript to open a link. > In a new window without menu and navigation. So you can't save > the copyrighted document, and the copyright is not broken. > Idiots ;-) >> But that's not what's happening on the web as we all know. So I'm >> trying to figure out what to do so I don't keep getting locked out. > Let's hope Arachne will be upgraded soon. > Deeply yours, > M M > MM MM > M M M I T H G O L > M M http://mithgol.pp.ru/ > T H E [EMAIL PROTECTED] > W W > W W W E B M A S T E R > W W W > W W Sam Ewalt Croswell, Michigan, USA -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/
