On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:41:52 +0300, Mithgol the Webmaster wrote:

> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:58:19 -0400 Clarence Verge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Perhaps you would like to contribute in the form of a minimal
>> js masquerade engine ?

> Sounds good. Let's discuss what should it be. I am busy right now, but 
> in early February I'll think about making a standalone DOS16 executable 
> (.EXE) JavaScript preparser (with open source code Turbo Pascal 5.5/6.0
> .PAS) - a program which parses original HTML and makes one of the 
> following:
> 1) .ASF with a single URL where Arachne should go to
> 2) .HTM, free of JavaScript, which Arachne should browse

> but this tends to be not so fast solution, since it needs an external APM
> helper instead of plug-in engine.

They end up being the same thing. Whether the external is faster or
slower will depend on the type of code.

> But it will do masqerade, since most guardian
> JS will either send a browser to another MSIE-only page via JS or change a
> hidden value in a certain form.

Excellent !!

> But. You should give me several examples of websites where Arachne should
> masquerade; the browser detection methods DO vary. I'll invent the most
> common and quick masquerade solution for each.

Hmmm. If i were to guess, I think those specific examples will come in
the form of complaints after the initial release. <g>

> Or describe a DOM component, if you agree with the following.

>> Lacking that, how about creating a document describing each of
>> the most important and absolute minimum js functions listing the
>> form of the function call and a description of the required
>> MINIMUM action ?
>> Please don't suggest I/we review the standard ourselves. Do you
>> want to contribute ?

> I won't suggest that. I can make a complete list, but JavaScript is an
> object-oriented language and its function calls may address to some DOM
> (Document Object Model), which may include (but is not limited to) the
> following browser-detection functions:

> *) automatic navigation through pages in Arachne history or sending 
>  Arachne to a new URL
> *) content read/written in forms
> *) new string or numeric objects created in memory
> *) new HTML code written in the place where SCRIPT tag is placed; this
>  code may also include SCRIPT tags, so it needs a recursive interpreter
> *) external java scripts downloaded from Internet and interpreted

All fine and reasonable except maybe the first. I can think of lots of
reasons why it can't/might not work. And we might not WANT it to work.

>> Forget complete js support for now - it is NOT going to happen.
>> Even to get limited functionality, we will need some self-critical help.

> Okay, I'll help you. But it's like Turing test
> http://www.loebner.net/Prizef/TuringArticle.html

> To imitate JS capabilities, Arachne should have at least limited DOM.
> Otherwise it will not be possible for JS to redirect Arachne, or to
> modify some hidden (or not hidden) data in forms sent to server - if
> it is server where the decision takes place about JS capabilities.

> Let's implement a basic DOM; it could be as simple as... well,
> I don't know English enough to be really metaphorical. Implementing a
> simple DOM in Arachne is really simple. Rendering a hierarchy of standard
> objects, one by one, is exactly what was first introduced in Netscape 3.0.

> If you know C++ or Turbo Pascal 5.5 (or higher), or Delphi, or Java, or any
> other object-oriented language, you can make Arachne capable of JS.

I know ASM only. I see no difficulty in any part of this except
understanding the model. (Or even a need for a model) <G>
I tend to think the way the CPU thinks. ;-)

<example snipped>

> I subscribed myself to arachne-development a week ago. You may prefer
> talking there, if I was not automatically unsubsribed for some reason ;-) The 
last I've

Why would you be ? When one list goes down, they ALL go down. :((

I'm pleased you wish to help. I think some certain others will agree.
I hope we can all find some time to collaborate in February, and I will
contact you off list in the near future to see if we can come up with
something that Michael might tolerate - at least in the short term.

Thanks.

- Clarence Verge
- Back to using Arachne V1.62 ....

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