I will have to concede then that in the current USA widespread gun ownership is desirable.
I grew up in suburban UK and almost no-one had a gun. I never saw anyone carrying a gun (other than children's toys) and only knew 2 people who owned guns (one an air pistol and one a revolver with no ammunition) Exceptions were the military and fairgrounds and the like. 30 years ago in my environment people did not get shot, none. No guns = no shootings period. Unfortunately that is no longer true, especially in some areas. But I still believe that no guns is a desirable state of affairs. John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Samuel W. Heywood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "John Sparks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 7:21 PM Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and the human rights > On Sun, 12 Jan 2003 16:58:50 -0000, John Sparks wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2003 8:20 PM > > Subject: Re: Keeping track of the news [was Re: UT (extreme:): the US and > > the human rights > > >> On Sat, 11 Jan 2003, John Sparks wrote: > > >> > <snip> > >> > > There are no civilized countries where the citizens are not allowed > >> > > to own guns. > >> > <snip> > >> > My dictionary defines civilize as "... get rid of barbarous habits..." > >> > Whilst I do not want to make any claims as to which country is or is not > >> > civilised, the only way I can see that owning guns might get rid of > >> > barbarous habits is by the citizens acting as an armed police force. > > That > >> > would only be necessary to control potentially bad citizens. > > Unfortunately > >> > they would also have guns! > > >> It's a pretty well documented fact that criminals are > >> deterred by the knowledge that potential victims "might be > >> armed." > > > That's kinda what I meant by the citizens acting as an armed police force. > > One of the roles of the police is to deter crime. > > > What I was implying is that the cure may be worse than the disease. I don't > > have any stats to back that up, but it seems likely that whilst say > > robberies might be reduced, more guns means more people are going to get > > shot whether by criminal acts, accidents or insanity. How many deaths is it > > worth to prevent how many robberies? > > > You quote some interesting examples. Switzerland may be an exception to my > > theory, but other factors may be involved > > You can very easily find many tables of statistics which will show > that shooting deaths decrease in proportion to the increase in the > number of concealed weapons permits issued. Every state that > has adopted a "shall issue" law for concealed weapons permits to all > applicants who are not by law disqualified from owning a firearm has > seen a remarkable decrease in shooting deaths. > > Sam Heywood > -- > This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser: > http://browser.arachne.cz/ > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 10/01/03
