These thoughts are a work of art... thank you Bob.
A work of art should not be disturbed, so I do not make comments into
this work.

Yes, our discussions on the Arachne list did give some insight in the
American view on the discussed matters, especialy the firearms question.
It is even clear why America does not want any "world government" it has
to obey.

However it would be great (and right) if America listens to the "world".. 
how they feel, fear and concern about a war in Iraq.

Regards, Bastiaan


On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:08:40 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Hi all (and especially our European members),

> Some thoughts on fact and fiction, anarchy and order, and (of course)
> Arachne ...

> In the field of international relations the current world situation is
> considered *anarchy*, since the world is made up of a collection of
> sovereign states (above whom there is no absolute authority).

> This is the direct consequences of the Treaties of Westphalia, which
> resulted in the agreed position (of the earthly monarchs) that the
> physical (geographical) realm was the rightful domain of the various
> kingdoms and the spiritual (non-physical) realm was the (only) rightful
> domain of the Pope.

> Essentially, these were mutual, non-aggression treaties to prevent the
> Pope from dispatching one kingdom to march on another. It limited (by
> mutual agreement of the kings) the authority of the church to manage
> physical affairs internal to the kingdoms. It created the European
> concept of sovereign states (kingdoms owing allegiance only to God) based
> on geographical boundaries.

> Any peasant would have agreed that what was good for the king was not
> necessarily good for the kings servants. But, the king was always king.
> So, in due course, the kingdoms weakened and peasants developed
> privileges and rights. A mercantile class developed (which, in turn, grew
> stronger and enslaved the lesser classes) and colonialism spread
> throughout the world - including across the Atlantic to the Americas.

> A certain amount of the American sentiment is a historical reaction to
> European history. America's very existence is based upon the rejection of
> royal privilege and an adherence to the concept of individual rights.
> And, it seems, most of Europe (and the world) would now agree with those
> basic principles.

> Not that the American way is necessarily perfect, but it does have
> worldwide appeal.

> Why then, having rejected subjection to self-imposed authorities, should
> America be so eager to rush to submit itself to a collection of sovereign
> states which, by any rational and objective examination of facts, has
> never been capable of achieving what America, separately, has achieved?

> Why, having established a system of checks and balances to insure the
> continuances of those hard earned rights, should the American people
> abandon their historical ways and risk all that they have achieved merely
> because of the desires of others that America should join their cause?

> Why is it considered irrational for America to maintain a consistent
> course which has been historically beneficial, and considered rational to
> abandon a system that works merely to institute one that is broken?

> The argument asks that America risk everything, with no assurance of any
> future benefit - or even any assurance of a future.

> In the USA, the argument is suspect because it comes from the voice of
> one who, in different and various ways, also imposes its self-determined
> rights upon the world. That voice is the collective voice of Europe,
> echoed through the halls of the various European institutions and the
> United Nations.

> It is not that there are no merits in any of the European positions or
> perspectives. America's major objection is that Europe announces that
> America must adhere to universal standards, yet Europe simultaneously
> maintains the status of sovereign states. The two positions are
> contradictory. Absolute authority in any area (e.g., the International
> Court) contradicts the sovereign status of states.

> The American consensus is that each issue should be examined on its own
> relative merits. Given the current situation of global anarchy, the
> rational approach is for each sovereign state to make choices based upon
> what is most beneficial to the individual state. It is irrational and
> selfish for others to demand differently, while simultaneously
> maintaining their own sovereignty.

> There is an inherent contradiction in the system, for what is *good* for
> one state may be *bad* for another. Yet there exists no mechanism (within
> the current order) to solve this dilemma, except perhaps by fostering
> goodwill and understanding between the two states (or, more precisely,
> the PEOPLES of the two states). When it works, it's a thing of beauty and
> unity. When it fails, chaos reigns. That is why the system is called
> *anarchy*.

> What is MOST helpful to all is exchanging the facts upon which each
> sovereign group has based its decisions, and allowing the critical and
> honest examination of such facts. I've observed this happening in the
> Arachne list concerning gun control, and (I think) it has led to better
> understanding between those of us from differing schools of thought.

> Perhaps we might find Arachne helpful for even greater dialog. Arachne,
> as a tool, is very useful for providing people with a means to develop
> and present their *facts* to others. So far, most of our dialog has been
> *text only*. But pictures are worth a thousand words. I, for one, would
> welcome some solid facts on global domination, the lust for oil and the
> quest for war, the relative threats of Iraq and Korea, etc. And pictures
> would be welcomed. (Video, launched from Arachne with the Quick View
> player, would be even better).

> However, consider that ...

> A factual statement, devoid of opinion, is a powerful argument. An
> expressed opinion, devoid of facts, pollutes the atmosphere with carbon
> dioxide and weakens the ozone layer - a concern that, I have been told,
> we should all take more seriously.

> Trying to find understanding in a world of chaos ...

> Bob

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