On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 9:11 PM, Johann Nallathamby <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 8:27 PM, Ruwan Abeykoon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Asela,
>> While agreeing the concerns of separate pack, we have different concerns
>> too to address,
>>
>> 1. We are moving towards micro-services world and container nativeness.
>> Adding more functionalities into single JVM is not the best move. The idea
>> is on service do single task to the best.
>> 2. Due to load on the server on querying the database on scheduler. We
>> have seen this problem in notorious session cleanup task. Iterating over
>> all the records in a live DB while modifying the same set of records is
>> considered a dangerous thing. This can not be done in theory.
>>
>> Yes, some users opt doing this with iterating over user store. This is
>> fragile and bound to be failed an any point of time.
>>
>> So, lets do the correct thing, let the analytics do things it is strong
>> and lets keep things simple.
>>
>> Also since we emit the events, customer is not tied to DAS or IS
>> analytics. They can insert those in their own structure (May be RDBMS,
>> REDIS, elastic search) and do any queries they wish, such as writing custom
>> scripts. So we are allowing more possibilities with this approach (not
>> providing hard set of functionalities inside IS).
>>
>
> +1 for this architecture.
>
> *@Asela*: the incremental cost seems to be big only because we only have
> a few of things right now we get from IS Analytics. The Analytics
> dashboards, Suspicious activity alerts, Session termination and now this
> new feature. But there are some more features IAM team is planning to do
> using IS Analytics in the space of  fraud detection and threat
> intelligence. Once we have tapped the full potential of IS Analytics users
> will see the value I think. Spinning up an additional server won't be seen
> as costly then.
>

Agreed on above!

My concern is that; when we are introducing a new feature/improvement,  It
is better to have an easy way which will help users/customers to try out
without any cost.  Yes! extensible/distributed deployment must be there.


>
> Regards,
> Johann.
>
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ruwan
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Asela Pathberiya <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Nadun De Silva <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Asela,
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Asela Pathberiya <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Nadun De Silva <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the moment the authenticator only has the *"password expiration
>>>>>> time period"* in the password expiration policy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I can start off by altering the authenticator to publish the
>>>>>> following to analytics
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do we need to deploy an analytic instance to use this
>>>>> authenticator...  Is it something mandatory ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If we use the current approach mentioned before, the analytics
>>>> instance is *not required to use the* *authenticator*. However, the
>>>> analytics instance would be *required to use the password expiration
>>>> notifications*. If the user does not use the analytics instance only
>>>> the notifications will be disabled.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Can we simply store & implement task inside WSO2IS to achieve this ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We did consider spawning a task to achieve this. But there were several
>>>> issues pointed out in our discussions.
>>>>
>>>>    - If the task is inside the identity Server instance, it will have
>>>>    a periodic workload of going through all the users and finding the users
>>>>    whose passwords had expired.
>>>>       - This is especially a concern when the number of users is
>>>>       really high.
>>>>       - Siddhi or a Spark query will be able to handle this more
>>>>       efficiently.
>>>>    - By using the analytics instance and only emitting the password
>>>>    changed events from the identity server we can decouple the 
>>>> notifications.
>>>>       - This gives the admin more freedom over the notifications.
>>>>       - We can do further analytics to identify anomalies and threats.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Got it.  But in a user/customer point of view, I just need to configure
>>> an authenticator to achieve password expiry notification with WSO2IS.   For
>>> that; I need to download separate pack & install it in separate java
>>> instance & maintain it separately.  It is cost.  Why i am spending this
>>> much of cost to enable this feature ?  IMO;  we need to think of that
>>> aspect as well.
>>>
>>> I have seen some users have already implemented a small script which
>>> calls the LDAP user store & verifies the password updated date & sends
>>> mails.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Asela.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>> Asela.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>    - The password expiration time period config change
>>>>>>    - The password changed event
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, the high-level architecture would be as follows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ​
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any comments or improvements are highly appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> NadunD
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 6:39 AM, Ruwan Abeykoon <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Dimuthu,
>>>>>>> I would suggest storing the expiration policy in IS side. How and
>>>>>>> where this can be stored yet to be discussed. For the time being, we can
>>>>>>> play around registry for quick start( but registry will go away soon)
>>>>>>> IS needs to emit an event towards analytics upon any change in the
>>>>>>> policy. This change will then be stored in analytics side too, and used 
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> parameters on Siddhi (preferable) or Spark queries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This will decouple the policy from the code. Hence "Identity Admin"
>>>>>>> is given chance implement most of things that can bed imagine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We provide default policy + default query. But "Identity Admin" can
>>>>>>> modify them without code change and change will be immediately live.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Ruwan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 3:03 AM, Dimuthu Leelarathne <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Nadun,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 15, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Nadun De Silva <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have started working on a Password Rotation Policy Authenticator
>>>>>>>>> for the Identity Server.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Currently, there is an authenticator [1] which can be used to
>>>>>>>>> force the user to change the password.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> However, it does not support the following requirements on its own.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    - Force the user to change the password to a *previously
>>>>>>>>>    unused password*
>>>>>>>>>    - *Notify the user* when the password had expired
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> According to my research, I found out that the *user can be
>>>>>>>>> forced to change the password to a previously unused password using 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> Password History Validation Policy* [2] and the authenticator
>>>>>>>>> [1]. However, the authenticator does not show a proper message to the 
>>>>>>>>> user.
>>>>>>>>> I am planning to fix this.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have also started working on the *password expiry notifications*.
>>>>>>>>> The planned approach that will be used is as follows,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    - Emit the password change event to analytics
>>>>>>>>>    - Use an analytic query to identify the user's whose passwords
>>>>>>>>>    had expired
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where do we hope to maintain the password expiration policy? It is
>>>>>>>> at the identity server side. Can analytics query can invoke a REST API 
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> identity server side to retrieve it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>>>> Dimuthu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This approach was selected as this will have a minimal load on the
>>>>>>>>> identity server instance as well as it will also open up the path to 
>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>> further analytics to identify anomalous user behaviors.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any suggestions or improvements are highly appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [1] https://store.wso2.com/store/assets/isconnector/details/
>>>>>>>>> 502efeb1-cc59-4b62-a197-8c612797933c
>>>>>>>>> [2] https://docs.wso2.com/display/IS530/Password+History+Val
>>>>>>>>> idation
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> NadunD
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *Nadun De Silva*
>>>>>>>>> Software Engineer | WSO2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> Mobile: +94778222607 <077%20822%202607>
>>>>>>>>> Web: http://wso2.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <http://wso2.com/signature>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Dimuthu Leelarathne
>>>>>>>> Director, Solutions Architecture
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WSO2, Inc. (http://wso2.com)
>>>>>>>> email: [email protected]
>>>>>>>> Mobile: +94773661935 <+94%2077%20366%201935>
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://muthulee.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Ruwan Abeykoon*
>>>>>>> *Associate Director/Architect**,*
>>>>>>> *WSO2, Inc. http://wso2.com <https://wso2.com/signature> *
>>>>>>> *lean.enterprise.middleware.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Nadun De Silva*
>>>>>> Software Engineer | WSO2
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>> Mobile: +94778222607 <+94%2077%20822%202607>
>>>>>> Web: http://wso2.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://wso2.com/signature>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Architecture mailing list
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>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>>>> Asela
>>>>>
>>>>> ATL
>>>>> Mobile : +94 777 625 933 <+94%2077%20762%205933>
>>>>>              +358 449 228 979
>>>>>
>>>>> http://soasecurity.org/
>>>>> http://xacmlinfo.org/
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Nadun De Silva*
>>>> Software Engineer | WSO2
>>>>
>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>> Mobile: +94778222607 <+94%2077%20822%202607>
>>>> Web: http://wso2.com
>>>>
>>>> <http://wso2.com/signature>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks & Regards,
>>> Asela
>>>
>>> ATL
>>> Mobile : +94 777 625 933 <+94%2077%20762%205933>
>>>              +358 449 228 979
>>>
>>> http://soasecurity.org/
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Ruwan Abeykoon*
>> *Associate Director/Architect**,*
>> *WSO2, Inc. http://wso2.com <https://wso2.com/signature> *
>> *lean.enterprise.middleware.*
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Architecture mailing list
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>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> *Johann Dilantha Nallathamby*
> Senior Lead Solutions Engineer
> WSO2, Inc.
> lean.enterprise.middleware
>
> Mobile: *+94 77 7776950*
> LinkedIn: *http://www.linkedin.com/in/johann-nallathamby
> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/johann-nallathamby>*
> Medium: *https://medium.com/@johann_nallathamby
> <https://medium.com/@johann_nallathamby>*
> Twitter: *@dj_nallaa*
>



-- 
Thanks & Regards,
Asela

ATL
Mobile : +94 777 625 933
             +358 449 228 979

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