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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap (Job Snijders)
   2. Re: Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap (David Farmer)
   3. Re: Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap (Job Snijders)
   4. Re: Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap (John Curran)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 21:19:59 +0000
From: Job Snijders <j...@ntt.net>
To: Jason Schiller <jschil...@google.com>
Cc: David Farmer <far...@umn.edu>, "<arin-consult@arin.net>"
        <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap
Message-ID: <20180222211959.gj43...@vurt.meerval.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:06:28PM -0500, Jason Schiller wrote:
> I am confused...
> 
> the current ARIN IRR is rr.arin.net

ARIN manages an IRR database called "ARIN" in a daemon running on host
rr.arin.net. You can publish data from multiple databases via a single
fqdn like 'rr.arin.net'. I think what David Farmer is talking about is
the "source: ARIN" aspect of the data you show:

    $ whois -h rr.arin.net 199.43.0.0/24 | grep source
    source:         ARIN # Filtered

RIPE is developing something similar, where non-authoritative data will
be marked with "source: RIPE-NONAUTH" rather than "source: RIPE" to show
which objects came into existance because of the chain of trust from the
RIR data to the IRR data, and some didn't.

With an example from the ARIN IRR:

    job@vurt ~$ whois -h rr.arin.net -- "-B 192.0.2.0/24" | egrep 
"route:|source:"
    route:          192.0.2.0/24
    source:         ARIN
    route:          192.0.2.0/24
    source:         ARIN

192.0.2.0/24 is a Special Use IPv4 prefix (RFC 3330 / RFC 5735) and not
owned by either of the organisations that created a route object for it
in the ARIN IRR. It is crazy that there even are route objects for this
prefix.

In my opinion, IRR 'route:' objects covering prefixes like 192.0.2.0/24
should either be purged from the ARIN IRR - or should be clearly marked
by changing the "source: ARIN" to "source: ARIN-OLD" (or perhaps "source:
ARIN-NONAUTHORITATIVE-LEGACY-GARBAGE" ;-))

Kind regards,

Job


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 16:42:02 -0600
From: David Farmer <far...@umn.edu>
To: Job Snijders <j...@ntt.net>
Cc: Jason Schiller <jschil...@google.com>, "<arin-consult@arin.net>"
        <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap
Message-ID:
        <CAN-Dau3pkYeH+T55inssj8OjjPcfQZOhYwCk=ic6ydxhkmt...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Job Snijders <j...@ntt.net> wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:06:28PM -0500, Jason Schiller wrote:
> > I am confused...
> >
> > the current ARIN IRR is rr.arin.net
>
> ARIN manages an IRR database called "ARIN" in a daemon running on host
> rr.arin.net. You can publish data from multiple databases via a single
> fqdn like 'rr.arin.net'. I think what David Farmer is talking about is
> the "source: ARIN" aspect of the data you show:
>
>     $ whois -h rr.arin.net 199.43.0.0/24 | grep source
>     source:         ARIN # Filtered
>
> RIPE is developing something similar, where non-authoritative data will
> be marked with "source: RIPE-NONAUTH" rather than "source: RIPE" to show
> which objects came into existance because of the chain of trust from the
> RIR data to the IRR data, and some didn't.
>
> With an example from the ARIN IRR:
>
>     job@vurt ~$ whois -h rr.arin.net -- "-B 192.0.2.0/24" | egrep
> "route:|source:"
>     route:          192.0.2.0/24
>     source:         ARIN
>     route:          192.0.2.0/24
>     source:         ARIN
>
> 192.0.2.0/24 is a Special Use IPv4 prefix (RFC 3330 / RFC 5735) and not
> owned by either of the organisations that created a route object for it
> in the ARIN IRR. It is crazy that there even are route objects for this
> prefix.
>
> In my opinion, IRR 'route:' objects covering prefixes like 192.0.2.0/24
> should either be purged from the ARIN IRR - or should be clearly marked
> by changing the "source: ARIN" to "source: ARIN-OLD" (or perhaps "source:
> ARIN-NONAUTHORITATIVE-LEGACY-GARBAGE" ;-))
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Job
>

Yep, that is what I was trying to get at. I didn't know if "-" was a valid
character, since none of the current IRRs have a "-" in their source
field.  Therefore it was just easier to assume "-" wasn't valid.

But if "-" is valid then "ARIN-OLD" is what I really thought of first, but
better yet is "ARIN-LEGACY" (and "ARIN-NONAUTHORITATIVE-LEGACY-GARBAGE" is
fine with me too;-)).

And, then after a year or so all the "ARIN-NONAUTHORITATIVE-LEGACY-GARBAGE"
 magically just disappears.

Thanks.

-- 
===============================================
David Farmer               Email:far...@umn.edu
Networking & Telecommunication Services
Office of Information Technology
University of Minnesota
2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
===============================================
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 16:18:09 +0000
From: Job Snijders <j...@ntt.net>
To: David Farmer <far...@umn.edu>
Cc: Jason Schiller <jschil...@google.com>, "<arin-consult@arin.net>"
        <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap
Message-ID: <20180223161809.gv43...@vurt.meerval.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:42:02PM -0600, David Farmer wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 3:19 PM, Job Snijders <j...@ntt.net> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 04:06:28PM -0500, Jason Schiller wrote:
> > > I am confused...
> > >
> > > the current ARIN IRR is rr.arin.net
> >
> > ARIN manages an IRR database called "ARIN" in a daemon running on host
> > rr.arin.net. You can publish data from multiple databases via a single
> > fqdn like 'rr.arin.net'. I think what David Farmer is talking about is
> > the "source: ARIN" aspect of the data you show:
> >
> >     $ whois -h rr.arin.net 199.43.0.0/24 | grep source
> >     source:         ARIN # Filtered
> >
> > RIPE is developing something similar, where non-authoritative data will
> > be marked with "source: RIPE-NONAUTH" rather than "source: RIPE" to show
> > which objects came into existance because of the chain of trust from the
> > RIR data to the IRR data, and some didn't.
> >
> > With an example from the ARIN IRR:
> >
> >     job@vurt ~$ whois -h rr.arin.net -- "-B 192.0.2.0/24" | egrep
> > "route:|source:"
> >     route:          192.0.2.0/24
> >     source:         ARIN
> >     route:          192.0.2.0/24
> >     source:         ARIN
> >
> > 192.0.2.0/24 is a Special Use IPv4 prefix (RFC 3330 / RFC 5735) and not
> > owned by either of the organisations that created a route object for it
> > in the ARIN IRR. It is crazy that there even are route objects for this
> > prefix.
> >
> > In my opinion, IRR 'route:' objects covering prefixes like 192.0.2.0/24
> > should either be purged from the ARIN IRR - or should be clearly marked
> > by changing the "source: ARIN" to "source: ARIN-OLD" (or perhaps "source:
> > ARIN-NONAUTHORITATIVE-LEGACY-GARBAGE" ;-))
> 
> Yep, that is what I was trying to get at. I didn't know if "-" was a valid
> character, since none of the current IRRs have a "-" in their source
> field.  Therefore it was just easier to assume "-" wasn't valid.
> 
> But if "-" is valid then "ARIN-OLD" is what I really thought of first, but
> better yet is "ARIN-LEGACY" (and "ARIN-NONAUTHORITATIVE-LEGACY-GARBAGE" is
> fine with me too;-)).
> 
> And, then after a year or so all the "ARIN-NONAUTHORITATIVE-LEGACY-GARBAGE"
>  magically just disappears.

I'd avoid the term "LEGACY" as that may confuse some because we also
have the concept of "Legacy IP space".

Perhaps "ARIN-NONAUTH" to align somewhat with the work being done in
RIPE?

If a subset of the data in ARIN's IRR can be validated, and the set of
objects that are not validated are tagged with "ARIN-NONAUTH" (since
those objects are not authoritative due to lack of validation) - we'll
be in much better shape.

I maintain that no new "ARIN-NONAUTH" objects should be allowed to come
into existence.

Kind regards,

Job


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 18:07:20 +0000
From: John Curran <jcur...@arin.net>
To: Job Snijders <j...@ntt.net>
Cc: David Farmer <far...@umn.edu>, "<arin-consult@arin.net>"
        <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on ARIN IRR Roadmap
Message-ID: <1c835bba-ab70-4e47-9dc5-422130e7c...@arin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 23 Feb 2018, at 11:18 AM, Job Snijders <j...@ntt.net<mailto:j...@ntt.net>> 
wrote:

I'd avoid the term "LEGACY" as that may confuse some because we also
have the concept of "Legacy IP space".

Indeed.

Perhaps "ARIN-NONAUTH" to align somewhat with the work being done in
RIPE?

I believe that?s being used with slightly different semantics, but it is 
certainly a possible tag.

If a subset of the data in ARIN's IRR can be validated, and the set of
objects that are not validated are tagged with "ARIN-NONAUTH" (since
those objects are not authoritative due to lack of validation) - we'll
be in much better shape.

I maintain that no new "ARIN-NONAUTH" objects should be allowed to come
into existence.

Perhaps all prior data should be left "as-is" for period of a year once ARIN?s 
new IRR is in place,
and be tagged as ?source: ARIN-FROZEN? ?

/John

John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN


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