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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Consultation on Expanding the Size of the ARIN Board of
      Trustees (Owen DeLong)
   2. Re: Consultation on Expanding the Size of the ARIN Board of
      Trustees (Bill Woodcock)
   3. Re: Consultation on Expanding the Size of the ARIN Board of
      Trustees (Bill Woodcock)
   4. Re: Consultation on Expanding the Size of the ARIN Board of
      Trustees (Bill Woodcock)
   5. Re: Expanding the Board (William Herrin)
   6. Re: Expanding the Board (vinton cerf)


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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 18:31:02 -0700
From: Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com>
To: John Curran <jcur...@arin.net>
Cc: John Comfort <j...@comfortconsulting.com>,
        "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Expanding the Size of the
        ARIN Board of Trustees
Message-ID: <40a52d39-95ab-45dd-a6fa-8eed64efe...@delong.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

To be clear, the board is elected by the members, which are a small subset of 
the much larger community. 

Now if the board wants to look into better and broader representation of the 
community, this might be something to look at. I think an expanded electorate 
would be far more useful than an expanded board. 

Owen


> On Apr 6, 2018, at 14:30, John Curran <jcur...@arin.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 6 Apr 2018, at 5:26 PM, John Comfort <j...@comfortconsulting.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Thank you John Curran for the explanation.  
>> 
>> To recap then, the consideration to increase the size of the board was 
>> initiated by a need to expand the "breath of knowledge" in matters discussed 
>> within the board meetings, correct?
> 
> Yes, that is correct. 
> 
>> I ask this question because I want to make sure we are clear on our 
>> objectives and motives.  You have my support if "breadth of knowledge" is 
>> the reason for this consultation. 
> 
> Also correct - " While the Trustees elected by the community often have a 
> broad knowledge of the Internet ecosystem, seven Trustees is a relatively 
> small group to evaluate impacts across the entire Internet ecosystem.?
> 
> Thanks!
> /John
> 
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> ARIN
> 
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 18:36:46 -0700
From: Bill Woodcock <wo...@pch.net>
To: "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Expanding the Size of the
        ARIN Board of Trustees
Message-ID: <eb0a483f-320c-481f-adc1-211bfe470...@pch.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



>> Ask yourself instead, ?what problem, if any, would this solve??  I?ve asked 
>> that question each time it?s been brought up, and I?ve never received an 
>> answer.
> 
> It?s unlikely going forward that we?ll have quite as many folks involved who 
> have similarly been involved in every aspect of the Internet since its 
> inception.

As Owen has pointed out, adding more people who you believe to be unqualified 
doesn?t make it easier for the people you believe to be qualified to get the 
work done, it just saddles them with more committees to entertain.

Myself, I believe that there are plenty of good candidates, but I believe that 
nomcoms haven?t done a great job of putting them on slates.  Again, a larger 
board doesn?t solve that problem.

So, I?m still looking for a problem that increased board size solves.  Because 
I?m very aware of the costs.

                                -Bill

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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 19:29:27 -0700
From: Bill Woodcock <wo...@pch.net>
To: "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Expanding the Size of the
        ARIN Board of Trustees
Message-ID: <1f9e03ba-68b9-4acf-93d6-20ccc3fc0...@pch.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



> On Apr 6, 2018, at 1:35 PM, John Comfort <j...@comfortconsulting.com> wrote:
> Does a six-member board not already provide a diversity of perspectives, 
> geographic and gender participation?  It seems we're just re-iterating last 
> year's "Diversity" agenda using more ambiguous language.

My argument was, I believe, in line with yours.  I said that diversity was not 
an argument in favor of larger board size.  That they are orthogonal, and that 
if someone claims that a larger board is, by nature, more diverse, that they 
are attempting to mislead people by confusing two unrelated issues.

So, I believe we?re in agreement: diversity is not an argument in favor of a 
larger board.

                                -Bill

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 19:42:43 -0700
From: Bill Woodcock <wo...@pch.net>
To: "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Expanding the Size of the
        ARIN Board of Trustees
Message-ID: <d46862c7-9979-4856-a105-a0ee632d1...@pch.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



> On Apr 6, 2018, at 2:46 PM, Rob Evans <rob.ev...@jisc.ac.uk> wrote:
> 
>> Have you identified the specific areas of knowledge that are not present on 
>> the existing 7-member board?
> 
> This is a ?known unknowns? question, right?

No?  While I agree that the board will certainly face unknown challenges which 
would benefit from not-currently-anticipatable expertise, there are some basic 
things that are always helpful: experience running non-profits. Experience 
participating in other RIR meetings enough to understand their politics and how 
those will impact ARIN (inter-regional transfers, ?global policies,? NRO/IANA 
stuff, etc.).  Financial management (which expertise Nancy clearly brings to 
the table, so it?s a good thing she?s serving as treasurer).  A little legal 
experience, not necessarily as a lawyer, but as someone who?s been responsible 
for a company that was being sued, or suing, or involved in some sort of 
intellectual property dispute, gives a little useful perspective.  We have a 
lot of expertise on the board with the Canadian situation, which differs 
somewhat from the US one in politics and how networks interrelate; but we have 
never had similar expertise with regard to the Caribbean, which 
 is equally a part of our region, and differs more from the US in law and 
network topology and economics than does Canada.  Experience managing the 
operational budget of an Internet network, such that things like fee structure 
can be put in context and viewed from a member?s point of view.

All of those are valuable, in my opinion.  We?ve had some of those, but not all 
of them, on the board thus far.  Thus far the nomcom has done essentially 
nothing to select slates based on needed criteria, but that?s probably because 
the nomcom has rarely, if ever, been given very explicit instructions about 
what would be useful.  So, Cathy?s right about that: the nomcom really needs to 
do more of the work of making sure that the slate that?s put forward to the 
voters includes people who can contribute usefully to the board, rather than 
just people who are popular.  Popular doesn?t count for much when work needs 
doing.

                                -Bill

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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 01:29:10 -0400
From: William Herrin <b...@herrin.us>
To: vinton cerf <vgc...@gmail.com>
Cc: Bill Woodcock <wo...@pch.net>, "arin-consult@arin.net"
        <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Expanding the Board
Message-ID:
        <cap-gugwfrxpqbps2ugjegwr1j2idqbx4oz21uopsjrkdhwz...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 4:32 PM, vinton cerf <vgc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I misread the proposal forgetting that John is the tenth member ex officio,
> so I agree with ten.
>
> vint

Greetings,

A Google search for "effective decision making group size" reveals as
its first hit this paper:

https://sheilamargolis.com/2011/01/24/what-is-the-optimal-group-size-for-decision-making/

Which concludes, "if you?re looking for the best size for a team,
consider an odd number close to five."

Another top hit references the book, "Decide & Deliver: 5 Steps to
Breakthrough Performance in Your Organization." The authors found
that, "Once you've got 7 people in a group, each additional member
reduces decision effectiveness by 10%."


Also, even numbers (like 10) are bad for decision making. A google
search of, "decision making even odd" finds as its first hit:
http://www.governinggood.ca/is-your-board-odd-4/

This research reports, "boards with an odd number of members may make
better decisions."


So having spent a little time reviewing published research on optimal
board sizes, I respectfully disagree with your support of ARIN's
10-member board plan.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin ................ her...@dirtside.com  b...@herrin.us
Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2018 10:00:07 -0400
From: vinton cerf <vgc...@gmail.com>
To: William Herrin <b...@herrin.us>
Cc: Bill Woodcock <wo...@pch.net>, "arin-consult@arin.net"
        <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Expanding the Board
Message-ID:
        <CAAFtm_Vu_pDUceLhOtc2bNvevC=nv76g3bqqy2k755duxhr...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I have managed boards with 15-21 members and while a challenge was able to
make it work.
10 gives a great deal of scope without losing ability to achieve consensus.

vint


On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:29 AM, William Herrin <b...@herrin.us> wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 4:32 PM, vinton cerf <vgc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I misread the proposal forgetting that John is the tenth member ex
> officio,
> > so I agree with ten.
> >
> > vint
>
> Greetings,
>
> A Google search for "effective decision making group size" reveals as
> its first hit this paper:
>
> https://sheilamargolis.com/2011/01/24/what-is-the-optimal-group-size-for-
> decision-making/
>
> Which concludes, "if you?re looking for the best size for a team,
> consider an odd number close to five."
>
> Another top hit references the book, "Decide & Deliver: 5 Steps to
> Breakthrough Performance in Your Organization." The authors found
> that, "Once you've got 7 people in a group, each additional member
> reduces decision effectiveness by 10%."
>
>
> Also, even numbers (like 10) are bad for decision making. A google
> search of, "decision making even odd" finds as its first hit:
> http://www.governinggood.ca/is-your-board-odd-4/
>
> This research reports, "boards with an odd number of members may make
> better decisions."
>
>
> So having spent a little time reviewing published research on optimal
> board sizes, I respectfully disagree with your support of ARIN's
> 10-member board plan.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
> --
> William Herrin ................ her...@dirtside.com  b...@herrin.us
> Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/>
>
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